JoeWolfe

1983 Civic Hatchback Auto Timing Cam Distributor Belt

5 years ago a mechanic installed a rebuilt engine in my 1983 Honda Civic. I also put in a new carb, distributor, timing belt and a few more things.

It ran well but the car pinged a little under heavy acceleration but not too much. The distributor was tuned as far as possible counterclockwise so I could not adjust it to stop pinging. 2 weeks ago the same shop replaced a faulty distributor and now it pings all the time. It needs fixing now. The distributor is again turned as far as possible counterclockwise.

WHAT DID THEY DO WRONG?

I am thinking the cam and engine were not correctly positioned and they put the timing belt on in the wrong place. I think that improper positioning used up all the adjustment available in the distributor. Does this explanation fit the circumstances?

My mechanic will need convincing. Is the solution to realign the top cam and the bottom half and put the timing belt back on and then moving the distributor more central and then retiming? How is this accomplished? Is it different for the 1300 and the 1500? I don't think my head has a mark on it. The book looks like the 1500 is not horizontal but lower on the left.

The vacuum advance seems to work and the centrifugal advance also. I put high test in it and the plugs look okay. The distributor is new rebuilt from Cardone. Still PINGS.

Please answer if I am right and with how to info on putting on timing belt. Is 1300 and 1500 different? Will the valves need to be readjusted?


Joe.

ezone

Firstly:
Has anyone checked ignition timing with a timing light? Is it off of spec?
When adjusted to spec, are the dist hold down bolts sitting in the middle of their slots?

If not near the middle of the slots, then the cam timing needs to be verified before going further.
If the cam/timing belt is off by a tooth or more that could sure explain the wrong dist position and ping.
Should be just a matter of removing the upper belt cover to see if the marks on the cam gear are correctly aligned when the crank is at TDC. ...and maybe confirm the cam gear is correctly pinned or keyed to the camshaft.

A cam swap or different cam, or head, could lead to differences in dist position, or since it's not the original engine you may not know WTF parts are actually inside it.



The car is older than the info I have available here.
IDK if 1300 and 1500 are similar or not.

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General ideas:

If the springs or pivots on the centrifugal advance weights are worn/weak/broken, it can advance or overadvance too early (too low RPM) and cause ping. Sticking mechanism could cause it to be advanced all the time, or retarded all the time.

If the vacuum hoses were switched (thinking of a dual diaphragm) or their controls are inop in any way, it might cause ping.

If EGR (when equipped) is disabled, restricted, clogged, or otherwise inoperative, that can cause ping.

If it's running too lean or running too hot that could cause ping.

On the air breather you should have the paper/foil tube that leads to the exhaust shields for hot air, is the flap inside the breather stuck in the hot air position?

JoeWolfe

Thank you for your fast response.

The shop did use a timing light and they moved the distributor a position the other way also to try to adjust it properly. Both times it ends up pegged at the end of its adjustment. I assume they set it as close as they could. Perhaps right on the money, I don't know.

There is only one hold down bolt and it is all the way over. I tried taking out the bolt and turning it another 1/4 inch using a visegrip pliers. It still pinged badly. There is no more room to turn the distributor counterclockwise even without the bolt in there.

This is the hitachi distributor and there is only one bolt that holds the distributor down and also allows it to turn for adjustment.

I will start checking the stuff in general ideas today. I am sure the air flap inside the breather is stuck but I do not know its position.

It does not overheat.

It didn't ping much with the old distributor and the replacement started it but I think its the cam pulley not set right. The old dist was turned all the way counterclockwise also.

I'll trace those vacuum hoses to see the proper route. Only one diaphram advance on this 83. It does have an egr and I'll check it out to see its working. Plugs to and see if its lean.

Because it didn't ping before the replacement distributor I think its a distributor problem. I want to verify the cam pulley is not set right so if anyone knows the proper markings let me know.

Thanks ezone!

Joe.

ezone

Looking in a parts catalog it shows the dist has a gear drive, so it would be easy to get that gear installed a tooth off...

ALso it would be easy to install it 180* out of time then just move plug wires around the cap to compensate, however that may cause your situation where it's stuck at one end of the slot or the other. I've seen it on a different manufacturers products, I suppose it may happen with this Honda too.
Same deal if the gear were installed on the dist shaft 180* out.

Get a good service manual!

JoeWolfe

The distributor has a vaccum advance diaphragm fastened to the side of it so it is facing the correct way as other pics of engines I've seen. If it were 180 degrees out it would be on the other side.

The gear on the distributor was rotated to try and get it to work but it went all the other way and would not work either.

Some of the pics I've seen show the marks on the cam pulley at different places depending on the engine. For the 83 1300 the marks are horizontal. For the 1500 and the automatic 1500 is shows them at a slight up angle say 2 or 3 degrees using a mark on the head or on the back of the timing belt cover to set it. I suspect the mechanic installed the belt improperly and it is off 2 or 3 degrees which is why the distributor doesn't match up right. I've convinced no one yet.

Thanks for your advice. Joe.

please continue if you can.

ezone

Not the dist housing turned 180*, but the shaft inside it.


I'm thinking 2 possibilities:

the small dist drive gear has an odd number of teeth on it, it may be installed on the dist shaft a half turn off (that's called 'incorrectly indexed') and cause the problem with the dist needing to be at the end of the slot no matter how you install it, instead of the middle of the slot.
The dist drive gear can typically be installed onto to the dist shaft in one of two positions, but only one is correct. Usually there are marks on the housing, shaft, and gear to show correct alignment for assembly and installation, but it's easy to ignore or forget that, if one learned that at all in the first place.

Or...someone may have stuffed the dist into the engine with the shaft and rotor a half turn away from correct (i.e. set for #4 instead of #1) then just move plug wires around the cap to make it run...
this would cause the same effect as if the gear were installed a half turn off.

I'm just trying to think of logical ways the dist could be misassembled or misinstalled to cause the problem you have with being at the end of the slot.
You really need to get a timing light and check if it's set correct or not, then you at least have a starting point instead of guessing and twisting the dist.


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If the timing belt were off a tooth it would cause somewhere in the range of 10* or more error. You could count the teeth on the cam timing gear then divide 360 by that number to come up with an actual number of degrees it would be off per tooth skipped.
Example, 44 teeth on the gear would make about a 12 degree change per tooth if it were out of time.

JoeWolfe

I took it to the shop and they replaced the igniter in the old distributor and stuck it back in. It ran so so much better then and the adjustment for timing was more to the middle of the range with no pinging. I think they also fixed whatever was wrong. My shop said the distributor I gave them was bad and to replace it. I shipped it back to r ock auto and they true to their word sent another as soon as the f e dex guys scanned it in even before they got the return.

Only thing is the car sometimes pings and sometime not with the old distributor back in. I'll wait till the new one goes in to worry.

Now I have a leaking fuel filler pipe and 2 or 3 small oil leaks. Not sure where the oil is coming from. Not the valve cover or the oil pressuer sensor. Maybe the main or secondary oil seal, or pan. I need a big diaper!

ezone

All the old distributor needed was an igniter?
Forget rock auto, keep driving on this one until it craps out. (?)


You can get fuel tank patch kits, maybe use that to repair the leaking neck.
Oil leaks....every rubber gasket and seal is suspect.

JoeWolfe

My car is working again with no pinging. The new distributor did the trick. However my mechanic told me he could not set the timing to spec but instead turned it until it seemed to run well. The timing marks on the flywheel did not allow proper setting. If something else was wrong he did not tell me. No pinging is heard at all and it still has pep.

I replaced the fuel filler pipe yesterday with a pipe from carparts.com the salvage yard website. It is working great. The old one had just rusted away at the bend. No wonder it leaked. It took one hour in the 35 degree cold for me.

Thanks to all who helped. Now on to those oil leaks. I think both main and secondary engine seals are leaking a little. But I need to verify that before or if I try to replace them. I may just get a big diaper for my engine. I add a quart about every 2 weeks now.

Thanks again ezone. Really. Thank You!!!