98 Hatchback Randomly dies
10-18-2016
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98 Hatchback Randomly dies
Hello all,
New to the forum. I bought a 98 Hatchback from my son for his first car. When I bought it it came with a Clifford alarm system. At first the car would randomly die about every 50 miles while driving. When I say die, the engine shuts off but I still have electric, radio, gauges and lights. I yanked the alarm system out and that drastically fixed the issue I thought. It stopped dying every 50 miles and now it just randomly dies. For instance its been about 2 months and 3000 miles since it died last, and today on the way to work it died. When it does die I pull off to the side of the road, sit and wait roughly about 4-11 minutes, and then it restarts. While I wait I can turn the ignition on and it seems the ecu doesn't go through its self checks, the check engine light stays on, the car will crank but the engine wont fire. But after I wait the 4-11 minutes it seems to go through its checks and the check engine light goes off, there is a click in the dash and it fires up and drives just fine. Just trying to make it reliable for my son to drive to school, any help would be greatly appreciated.
New to the forum. I bought a 98 Hatchback from my son for his first car. When I bought it it came with a Clifford alarm system. At first the car would randomly die about every 50 miles while driving. When I say die, the engine shuts off but I still have electric, radio, gauges and lights. I yanked the alarm system out and that drastically fixed the issue I thought. It stopped dying every 50 miles and now it just randomly dies. For instance its been about 2 months and 3000 miles since it died last, and today on the way to work it died. When it does die I pull off to the side of the road, sit and wait roughly about 4-11 minutes, and then it restarts. While I wait I can turn the ignition on and it seems the ecu doesn't go through its self checks, the check engine light stays on, the car will crank but the engine wont fire. But after I wait the 4-11 minutes it seems to go through its checks and the check engine light goes off, there is a click in the dash and it fires up and drives just fine. Just trying to make it reliable for my son to drive to school, any help would be greatly appreciated.
10-18-2016
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Hello all,
New to the forum. I bought a 98 Hatchback from my son for his first car. When Ibought it it came with a Clifford alarm system. At first the car would randomlydie about every 50 miles while driving. When I say die, the engine shuts offbut I still have electric, radio, gauges and lights. I yanked the alarm systemout and that drastically fixed the issue I thought. It stopped dying every 50miles and now it just randomly dies. For instance its been about 2 months and3000 miles since it died last, and today on the way to work it died. When itdoes die I pull off to the side of the road, sit and wait roughly about 4-11minutes, and then it restarts. While I wait I can turn the ignition on and itseems the ecu doesn't go through its self checks, the check engine light stayson, the car will crank but the engine wont fire. But after I wait the 4-11minutes it seems to go through its checks and the check engine light goes off,there is a click in the dash and it fires up and drives just fine. Just tryingto make it reliable for my son to drive to school, any help would be greatlyappreciated.
New to the forum. I bought a 98 Hatchback from my son for his first car. When Ibought it it came with a Clifford alarm system. At first the car would randomlydie about every 50 miles while driving. When I say die, the engine shuts offbut I still have electric, radio, gauges and lights. I yanked the alarm systemout and that drastically fixed the issue I thought. It stopped dying every 50miles and now it just randomly dies. For instance its been about 2 months and3000 miles since it died last, and today on the way to work it died. When itdoes die I pull off to the side of the road, sit and wait roughly about 4-11minutes, and then it restarts. While I wait I can turn the ignition on and itseems the ecu doesn't go through its self checks, the check engine light stayson, the car will crank but the engine wont fire. But after I wait the 4-11minutes it seems to go through its checks and the check engine light goes off,there is a click in the dash and it fires up and drives just fine. Just tryingto make it reliable for my son to drive to school, any help would be greatlyappreciated.
10-18-2016
#3
OF top 99.5% creator (Formerly of the Puffinblunts variety)
Re: 98 Hatchback Randomly dies
Any CEL codes?
After you pulled the alarm system out did you do an ECU relearn? If not,
1) Shut engine off
2) Switch off head lights, interior lights, radio, a/c, all power sources, etc..
3) Disconnect negative battery terminal from battery
4) Turn on highbeam headlights and pump brake pedal a few times to help discharge all voltage.Then turn high beams/ headlights off.
5) Wait 5 minutes and reconnect negative terminal to battery
6) Start engine and let sit in idle for 10 to 15 minutes without any power souces on.
7) Shut engine off
If, ECU relearn doesn't solve the issue then could be related to:
1) Weak or failing (but not failed) alternator. Have the alternator and battery tested at autozone or other parts store for free..doesn't need to be removed.
2) Weak or failing distributor ignition coil and/or igniter: http://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-c...odule-1430824/ Check inside distributor cap for oil (leak from intenal O-ring).
3) Crankshaft Position Sensor (near crankshaft gear)
4) CYP: cylinder position sensor (in distributor).
5) Inspect wiring harness behind intake manifold for damage..could be causing a short to ground.
or other possibilties.
After you pulled the alarm system out did you do an ECU relearn? If not,
1) Shut engine off
2) Switch off head lights, interior lights, radio, a/c, all power sources, etc..
3) Disconnect negative battery terminal from battery
4) Turn on highbeam headlights and pump brake pedal a few times to help discharge all voltage.Then turn high beams/ headlights off.
5) Wait 5 minutes and reconnect negative terminal to battery
6) Start engine and let sit in idle for 10 to 15 minutes without any power souces on.
7) Shut engine off
If, ECU relearn doesn't solve the issue then could be related to:
1) Weak or failing (but not failed) alternator. Have the alternator and battery tested at autozone or other parts store for free..doesn't need to be removed.
2) Weak or failing distributor ignition coil and/or igniter: http://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-c...odule-1430824/ Check inside distributor cap for oil (leak from intenal O-ring).
3) Crankshaft Position Sensor (near crankshaft gear)
4) CYP: cylinder position sensor (in distributor).
5) Inspect wiring harness behind intake manifold for damage..could be causing a short to ground.
or other possibilties.
Last edited by Wankenstein; 10-18-2016 at 02:01 PM.
10-18-2016
#4
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: 98 Hatchback Randomly dies
Got fault codes?
Usual suspects (after alarm stuff has been eliminated):
PGMFI main relay
Ignition switch (the electrical half)
Coil/igniter/distributor
Usual suspects (after alarm stuff has been eliminated):
PGMFI main relay
Ignition switch (the electrical half)
Coil/igniter/distributor
10-19-2016
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Ill give the the ECU relearn a shot tonight. I think the prior owner was chasing this issue as well. When I bought it it had new plugs, wires, distributor, battery. I drove it today to work 1 hour and 50 miles and no problem at all.
Any CEL codes?
After you pulled the alarm system out did you do an ECU relearn? If not,
1) Shut engine off
2) Switch off head lights, interior lights, radio, a/c, all power sources, etc..
3) Disconnect negative battery terminal from battery
4) Turn on highbeam headlights and pump brake pedal a few times to help discharge all voltage.Then turn high beams/ headlights off.
5) Wait 5 minutes and reconnect negative terminal to battery
6) Start engine and let sit in idle for 10 to 15 minutes without any power souces on.
7) Shut engine off
If, ECU relearn doesn't solve the issue then could be related to:
1) Weak or failing (but not failed) alternator. Have the alternator and battery tested at autozone or other parts store for free..doesn't need to be removed.
2) Weak or failing distributor ignition coil and/or igniter: http://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-c...odule-1430824/ Check inside distributor cap for oil (leak from intenal O-ring).
3) Crankshaft Position Sensor (near crankshaft gear)
4) CYP: cylinder position sensor (in distributor).
5) Inspect wiring harness behind intake manifold for damage..could be causing a short to ground.
or other possibilties.
After you pulled the alarm system out did you do an ECU relearn? If not,
1) Shut engine off
2) Switch off head lights, interior lights, radio, a/c, all power sources, etc..
3) Disconnect negative battery terminal from battery
4) Turn on highbeam headlights and pump brake pedal a few times to help discharge all voltage.Then turn high beams/ headlights off.
5) Wait 5 minutes and reconnect negative terminal to battery
6) Start engine and let sit in idle for 10 to 15 minutes without any power souces on.
7) Shut engine off
If, ECU relearn doesn't solve the issue then could be related to:
1) Weak or failing (but not failed) alternator. Have the alternator and battery tested at autozone or other parts store for free..doesn't need to be removed.
2) Weak or failing distributor ignition coil and/or igniter: http://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-c...odule-1430824/ Check inside distributor cap for oil (leak from intenal O-ring).
3) Crankshaft Position Sensor (near crankshaft gear)
4) CYP: cylinder position sensor (in distributor).
5) Inspect wiring harness behind intake manifold for damage..could be causing a short to ground.
or other possibilties.
10-19-2016
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No fault codes. The only light on right now is my SRS light, I have to address it sometime. I know there was an ignition switch recall, so I called Honda and that was taken care of. The distributor is new along with plugs and wires and battery. Ill look into the PGMFI main relay. Question though, is the click noise I hear when the car does its systems check the PGMFI main relay near the glove box? The reason I ask is because when the car randomly dies and the check engine light comes on, I pull to the side of the road, turn ignition off, then back on and the car does its checks, but the check engine light doesn't go off. After I sit and wait I can hear something near the glovebox click at the same time the check engine light goes off, and that's when I know it will start again.....
Last edited by r_jojola; 10-19-2016 at 06:45 AM.
10-19-2016
#8
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: 98 Hatchback Randomly dies
because when the car randomly dies and the check engine light comes on, I pull to the side of the road, turn ignition off, then back on and the car does its checks, but the check engine light doesn't go off. After I sit and wait I can hear something near the glovebox click at the same time the check engine light goes off, and that's when I know it will start again.....
Hope it's a simple bad relay but some diag should be able to prove one bad or the other
10-19-2016
#9
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I'm going to order a new PGMFI Friday and replace that first (cheaper option). I know I can resistance check the PGMFI, but if its slowly going bad it will check good when I check it and not show its bad.
10-19-2016
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Update:
Today driving home the car randomly died. I was running the A/C because it was a warmer fall day here in MD (81F). It died three times with the A/C running, then I turned it off and drove 40 miles and it did great. Not sure if the outside temp has any thing to do with it, or if the relay doesn't like that temp.....but like I said ill replace it Friday.
Today driving home the car randomly died. I was running the A/C because it was a warmer fall day here in MD (81F). It died three times with the A/C running, then I turned it off and drove 40 miles and it did great. Not sure if the outside temp has any thing to do with it, or if the relay doesn't like that temp.....but like I said ill replace it Friday.
10-19-2016
#11
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Re: 98 Hatchback Randomly dies
Update:
Today driving home the car randomly died. I was running the A/C because it was a warmer fall day here in MD (81F). It died three times with the A/C running, then I turned it off and drove 40 miles and it did great. Not sure if the outside temp has any thing to do with it, or if the relay doesn't like that temp.....but like I said ill replace it Friday.
Today driving home the car randomly died. I was running the A/C because it was a warmer fall day here in MD (81F). It died three times with the A/C running, then I turned it off and drove 40 miles and it did great. Not sure if the outside temp has any thing to do with it, or if the relay doesn't like that temp.....but like I said ill replace it Friday.
10-19-2016
#12
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Possibly the extra load on the engine while the a/c compressor is used is over-heating/stressing the main relay: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...d-get-hot.html
Excellent!!! Thanks for the help!!!!!
10-20-2016
#13
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: 98 Hatchback Randomly dies
Make sense?
10-20-2016
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The HVAC doesn't increase electrical load through that PGMFI main relay (study a wiring diagram), therefore they can't affect the stress on the relay, BUT the relay, it's circuit board, and the electronics in the ECM can be affected by vehicle interior temperature (and humidity)....which CAN be greatly affected by running the HVAC system, either cold or hot.
Make sense?
Make sense?
Makes perfect sense. The car dying has been random at all temps. Hot outside with the windows down, hot with ac on, cold outside with heater on....so I think I'm on the right path to fix this problem. Buying the relay today and installing tomorrow.....ill drive it and keep everyone informed.
10-20-2016
#15
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Re: 98 Hatchback Randomly dies
The HVAC doesn't increase electrical load through that PGMFI main relay (study a wiring diagram), therefore they can't affect the stress on the relay, BUT the relay, it's circuit board, and the electronics in the ECM can be affected by vehicle interior temperature (and humidity)....which CAN be greatly affected by running the HVAC system, either cold or hot.
Make sense?
Make sense?
The few times I've been in civil court (divorce/custody) my favorite words are: Perhaps, Maybe, Possibly, and "I don't recall"
Last edited by Wankenstein; 10-20-2016 at 10:34 PM.
10-20-2016
#16
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
10-21-2016
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My son and I installed the new PGMFI relay today and took the civic for a 30 minute ride, ran great. Not sure if my random dying is fixed, so ill keep this thread going with monthly updates if it dies or if it runs. Thanks everyone for the help.
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