endlesspurpose

SO recently I am driving my 98 honda civic lx and engine is warmed up, around 50mph and all of a sudden my engine just seems to stop working, but all my electrical is still on, I will try the gas pedal, but I only hear loud poping or backfire, no engine, rpm goes prety much to 0. After a few of trying the gas pedal as I slow down, the engine will most of the time "resume" and I will continue on my way. SO having that happen I have recently did a tune up, replacing spark plugs and wires, distributor cap and ignition rotor, fuel filter, air filter, also I replaced my old alternator with a new (refurbished). I replaced the alternator because I could tell the one I had was on it's way out, and after the new one was in my lights were bright and stayed bright! The car drove me to work fine, then on my way home the same type of stalling happened again driving on my way home, engine was warm and doing around 45mph rpm abour 2500 then goes almost to 0 rpm, same loud backfire, and it was very hesitant about resuming again, but it did catch and get me home. Now I am trying to go to work and it will not start! It will only crank, power seems fine but no combustion? Any help would be great!! Sorry if I left out some info i'm in a rush trying to figure this all out.

ezone

Got spark?

How many miles on the car?
Has the distributor ever been replaced?
How about the coil? Igniter?


This description (tach dropped to 0 briefly) sounds like maybe either a loose/misinstalled female terminal on the igniter, or an igniter that was going bad........ and now it's completely bad.
Need to investigate further!

endlesspurpose

I am going to have to wait until morning to get to the auto store and have some sun light, but the car has almost 166k miles on in. I bought the car off some guy on craigslist and have had it about a year, was around 155k, and I don't have much history about the car.. I had bought it with the oxygen sensor disconnected, but for the past year I have had no issues with the car until recently, so I have never gotten a new O2 sensor to replace it. Maybe it's time I should think about replacing that as well? I am not sure if there is any spark haven't checked that, and I am not sure if the distributor itself has ever been replaced, I just did the cap and rotor the other day though. I have thought about the igniter as well and maybe I will look in to that a bit more.. Thank you for your advice I will continue to post as I progress

endlesspurpose

Also I did notice when I was doing my distributor cap there was a spring from the ignition coil that was covered in rust, could be time for a new one of those as well.. A lot of rust on this car can tell somethings on this car just hasn't been maintained, but a great engine to keep alive.

ezone

Sounds about average mileage for an original igniter to take a poop.
Test, don't guess.


Tough to say. Any clue why it was disconnected?
Hook it up and see how it runs? (once it runs again)

Yes they can have problems, that's probably why it was unhooked LOL


I'd diagnose first. I can't just toss parts at a car and hope.

Be aware: Aftermarket reman distributors are crap.


Got a dwellmeter? Connect to coil same as if checking points, have someone crank it and take a reading. If there is any reading at all (besides 0 or 90), even 3 degrees, the igniter is working.
If no reading, continue checking.
Dangerzone might be able to test your igniter.

endlesspurpose

I don't have a dwellmeter, only have a multimeter, and I was able to get the car to run this morning by unhooking the battery for about 20 seconds, then after a bit of cranking it started, I was letting it just run idle, but it wouldn't hold and just quit after about a min... I had gotten a ride to the auto store and ended up just replacing my old ignition coil... I replaced that and I had gotten a torque wrench and spark plug gauge and properly sized and torqued all 4, making sure to do one at a time not to mix up the wires. I had re attached my battery after doing the work, and the car had started up, but backfired a bit, and I reved the engine and it stayed on for a few seconds until it stalled... electrical seems fine and I hear my fuel pumping priming every time I am about to start, I let it go the full cycle until I try. I can't get the car to run now, unless I try the disconnect and reconnect the battery in hopes that runs it... I am not sure what or how to do the next testing I need to do?? I was hoping it was just a bad ignition coil I had, but apprently it is something else now?!

endlesspurpose

Almost seems like a bad sensor if it works after I disconnect and reconnect the battery, but there are so many it's hard for me to know what to test for each of them, like I said I do own a multimeter, but what to check i'm unsure. I should also mention that my piping fell off a little while ago for my muffler, the flex tubing broke and the tubing right before the muffler failed as well, so the cat is open. What is the best way to see if my starter is still working? I am looking in to how to test my throttle positioning sensor to see if that if working, will post results once complete.

endlesspurpose

not really sure how to test my TPS with my multimeter. Tried to get a paper clip to fit by the wire without damaging any of the 3 wires, but I don't not believe I was touching any of the wires with each 3 tests... I am hoping to have a friend come help me look or hopefully it can run so I can get it somewhere I can get the codes...

ezone

So you got a coil installed but it still died, so it wasn't that.

You need to check for spark while it will not start.

If there is no spark, concentrate on that instead of TPS and starter.

You have "cranks but won't run" right now?
If it won't crank, then you can worry.



OBD2 Scanner is first choice and by far the easiest.

Read up on how to backprobe a connector. I use T pins, safety pins, straight pins, sharpened paper clips for this. Read live voltage output from the sensor to the computer. Closed throttle should be 0.49V. If it's not, then you can do more checking.

Hope you didn't spread out the female terminals in the connector, that would be a problem.



Again: If there is no spark from the ignition-- you need to chase that first.

endlesspurpose

I didn't get anything done yesterday with work and life, but today I am going to get a start on things again. I will try to check for spark. I will also try to test the TPS as well, I was looking up on it too and saw closed should be around .49v and wide open should be 4.50v. I don't think I damaged the connection at all I was too worried the paper clip I had was too big, so I didn't try too hard with it. I have talked with a few people I know and they have mentioned I should also look in to my crankshaft position sensor, if I am all good with spark and the TPS. I have given thought to buying an OBD2 scanner, if I am unable to figure anything out after testing I may end up buying one. I am going to try and post some pics I took of my throttle body and what I belive is my TPS. I should mention I did clean up the liquid on the bottom of the body with a rag before I put it back together.

The first pic with the very rusted bolthead, is that my tps??


closed inside throttle body:


open inside throttle body:


Another view:


Another view:


Another view:

ezone

yes.

endlesspurpose

So far I have just made sure all connection are good found a screw I could put in my ignition rotor, as it was missing when I went to change my cap out... Just tried to start the car just to see before I went to test everything, and it cranked and ran!! Revved the engine had a lot of smoke comming out.. She died a couple times when I first start it, it back fire a couple times and stalled out, but got it to stay on by charging by the battery (as it was getting low from cranking so much). I do want to mention when it died sometimes my RPM gauge would drop to 0 before the engine actually died.. When it would stay running I let it idle, I decided to drive to the auto store... I asked them to hook up the reader and it came back with a P0705 code which is

Definition: Short in transmission range switch circuit
Probable cause: Short circuit condition
Faulty transmission range switch

So far the car has stayed alive and drove normally, just to the auto store and back home.. any advice?

oneheadlight

I did a google search and this was first in the list, should help you look into the problem..

http://www.obd-codes.com/p0705

endlesspurpose

Thanks so much for the link! I have been doing research online as well for the code and such, but the site you posted gave me much more info than I have found so far. It mentions "When the vehicle is moving and there are contradictory signals being received by the computer, such as the TRS signal indicates that the vehicle is in park, however the speed sensor indicates that it is moving, the code P0705 is set.

Read more at: http://www.obd-codes.com/p0705
Copyright © OBD-Codes.com"

I was just reading this, but would I need to look in to my speed sensor as well?? I do not notice anything wrong with my speedometer really, seems to be on par when I am in traffic speeding up and slowing down... even when my car stalled my speed would remain but only rpm would drop and I would slow down as my speedmeter decline as well...

When the scanner was hooked up to my car, I did have it running, and in park of course. I also do occasionally have rough shifting and irregular shift in rpm (when it stalls my rpm goes to 0 and back up if/when the car picks back up) which is mentioned in the symptoms as well... I am inclined to find this sensor and replace it. I will continue to look in to this and any other advice would be appreciated!

ezone

I'll guess it had loaded the exhaust with raw fuel, then you see it 'burning' or steaming off as the exhaust system heats up.

Injectors keep squirting fuel every time you crank it, but if there is no spark to ignite a fire, most of that fuel gets pushed into the exhaust.

You sure it wasn't P1705?
P0705 isn't on the list of possible codes for that year Civic. Some code readers aren't always accurate.

How long has the code been there?
Got Freeze Frame data to go with that code? That might help establish what was going on when it set the code.

Erase the code and see if it comes back.

Watch your PRNDL lights on the dash. Each light should come on as the shift lever is in each position, and the light should not disappear while driving in any gear.

If you somehow got the shifter stuck between 2 ranges so the D (or whichever) light is not illuminated and drive it like that, it can set a code. If the switch contact set is worn enough to let the D light go out while driving, it could set a code.

Using the shift lever as a hand rest-- pulling the lever out of the center of its detent area so the indicator light goes off could do it too.


The switch set is susceptible to drink spills, as it is attached to the side of the shift lever housing under the center console trim.


But right now I don't think the trans related code has anything to do with the engine shutting off.

I'll guess you didn't go very far?

How long had the engine been running on previous times it died? You'll probably have to run it that long again to recreate the problem.

Igniter electronic failures are usually temperature/heat related.






That won't do anything to help your current problem IMO.


HTH

endlesspurpose

I don't mean to replace the speed sensor, but the TRS. I shouldn't type everything I think I guess, lol, the speed sensor if just a far hit because of the way the reading is. Although I agree I don't believe the TRS wouldn't cause my engine failure while driving, It seems to shift fine according to the lights it goes to whatever gear I am in and will not fade or flicker, or say I am in one that I am not. It seems like problems has occured most of the time when the engine is warmed up already and driving, but has occurred under condition while warming up.

Almost late for work have to run

ezone

This is why I suggest to just erase the codes and see if/when that code returns. Better yet, check with a completely different code reader.

You don't know how long it's been stored in the computer,
you don't seem to have any symptom related to it,

and most importantly -- the code reader that gave the code can't be trusted to be accurate. P0705 should not be read in that car.




Check ground wires on the thermostat housing?


HTH

oneheadlight

hey you're welcome. But I didn't know that this code wasn't something that your year Civic could/would set. Ezone is in the business everyday, he would know! Definitely get that re-scanned, or better yet, like ezone said disconnect the battery and see if the code comes back. I'm glad I could help point you in the right direction, keep at it.. Sounds like you've almost found the problem. or one of them.

I know when I was troubleshooting with my civic, it wasn't just one problem but a handful contributing the issues. When taken all together it seemed like one issue, but was about 4 different things. Just a side note.. keep at it, you can fix it

endlesspurpose

Well I have decided to go to a different auto store and have them rescan the car, I do not own a scanner myself... Their scanner came back with the same code and I explain about disconnecting and reconnecting the battery, but they didn't seem to really want to take the time for that. The car started fine and drove me there, and drove me home fine, but right as I am about to park my car ends up stalling for a second, there would be no acceleration when I press the gas and rpm stayed at 0 until it picked back up, I was only going about 20mph when this happen, no real sound of back firing. Then when I parked I let it idle, and it just stalled, right there, turned it back on and it ran for about 10 seconds and died again... I do notice the car seems to idle very high when I first start it, don't know exactly but pretty sure over 1500rpm and slowly drop down. Also when I am driving and come to a stop light it will idle around 1000rpm and all of a sudden drop almost seems like the engine will quit but stays up and idles around 500. After the car is warmed up and I have to turn it off to run in a store or where ever, and turn it back on it doesn't seem to idle high then low, just when I first start it from cold usually... I tried to pay close attention to the shifting lights and they were right on par with everything I was doing. On the driver side there is a grounding wire looks a little frayed, but not horrible. Still think I might have a bad ignitor?? I do want to have my coolant drained and replaced soon, also a new battery I will probably get this week and I notice mine is old, but haven't seem to have power issues, but also don't want to get caught in that situation! Also still need to connect my cat to my muffler :O so much to do it seems haha...

ezone

I'm still sticking with my guesses as to why it loses spark and stalling.


When the engine is cold it is supposed to idle higher than when it's warmed up. Sounds normal to me.
I'd ignore the idle issues until the stalling is solved.
I wouldn't bother with anything else until this is solved.

Got a pic?

endlesspurpose

The auto store opens in about an hour, so I am going to replace that icm and see how it goes after that, it may help my idle issue as well. I really appreciate all the advice and so far and will continue to work at this car until I can afford a new one. I believe once this issue is resolved the car will last me a good few years as long as I keep up the maint. I am a former aircraft mechanic, so I hope I can figure this out and keep this car on the road! Here are a couple pics, 2 are of the wire in the front driver side I was telling you about. not in the best shape.. and the other is down below where my coolant sensor is I believe? not sure I didn't really notice any grounding wire around there... I am going to try and replace my Ignition Control Module, and that might help or fix my problem I hope, I will look again for the grounding wire.. i'll keep you guys posted! Again thank you so much so far

ground wire 1


grounding wire 2


coolant sensor grounding wire?

ezone

The large ground cable looks about average for a car that old LOL. It's a chassis ground.

The ground wires on the thermostat housing are the main grounds for the computer, the main relay, and some other stuff...VERY important ground point.

endlesspurpose

Well I just got done replacing the ICM and car started up right away! I even bought some thermal compound, wipped off the stuff it came with and put a smooth coat of that on the metal contact plate, and put it back together. Seem like it started fine, let it idle down and ran good, so I took it a couple times around the block, didn't notice any hard shifting so far like before, a bit more smooth... I will continue to monitor the car and hopefully the stalling has gone away!! I will be taking my car to work tonight and I'll let you know how she drives first day back on the road Again thanks for all the help and advice, it's been a struggle so far, but she has new parts so she better be treating me right :P !

endlesspurpose

I didn't really get a chance to take many pics while I was working, but I took a pic before I put everything back together... where it is. I don't think I really needed to take off the whole distributor, but it was a lot easier to work on it like that.

Whole view:


Close up:

ezone

Hope it stays good for you! Be aware that aftermarket stuff may not last nearly as long as factory parts. Sometimes 30k miles is all you can hope for, ya know.


I see you had the whole dist out of the head. Would have been a good time to replace that hardened rubber O ring to stop the oil leak (if it hasn't already been done). $2.20 at Honda.

The oil leaks from the distributor soak into the heater hose right below it, and end up making the rubber soft and swollen---then it blows out.

And double check igniton timing.

And in your last pic..... Those female terminals can lose their tension over time and not grip tight on the male blades. This can cause the tach to rise erratically and cause strange misfires as any loosened terminals vibrate (the vibration makes and breaks contact very rapidly, making extra tach and spark signals).
I like to give them a gentle squeeze with pliers to tighten them up before connecting them.
If they all went on pretty tight (required effort to push on) you'll probably be ok. If any slipped on real easy, that might be too easy.

HTH