Carbo

Original owner, 97 EX 4 DR sedan, automatic, about 86K miles.
About a year ago I noticed an oil leak and have been putting it off until now. Refilling about half a quart every four to six weeks.
Brought it in for an oil change today at the local Pep Boys and the tech pointed out the leak. It appears to be either the valve cover gasket and/or the distributor. I was quoted $106 to replace the valve cover gasket, and $390 to replace the distributor. The replacement is a remanufactured unit.
Bear with my ignorance as I am not a motor head. My questions:

1) Are these quotes fair or jacked?
2) I can probably do the valve cover gasket myself, but how involved a job is replacing the distributor?
3) How does a distributor leak oil? I wasn't aware they contained any.

Advice and opinions appreciated. Thank you.

TiggerDX

iTrader: (1)

Valve cover gasket is about $32 and is really easy to change. The distributor has an O ring that goes into the head. That is where the oil leaks. You can probably get away with replacing the O ring unless oil has gotten into the distributor. Again, a very simple fix.

ezone

It's extremely likely to be the VTEC valve gaskets leaking. That leak can run all over the place and look like all the rest of the stuff mentioned.
There are 2 rubber gaskets for it, and my observation has been that at that age they typically leak worst when cold. Leak slows down as the engine warms up.


On the distributor, why would one replace a good distributor if it only needs a fresh gasket? If the cap and insides are not full of oil, then it almost has to be the O ring around the base where it slips into the cylinder head. Maybe $5 plus a little labor.
Wait, I just looked it up: O ring seal alone is USD$2.07 MSRP.



I'd say to clean off all of the oil mess until spotless, then throw powder all over (white bath talc, spray can of Right Guard, or similar), then drive it one day and look for leakage evidence left in the powder.

Carbo

Thank you all for the quick replies and information.
Funny, I asked the tech if there was a gasket of some kind for the distributor and he assured me there wasn't and that it needed replacing. I'm going to degrease the engine tomorrow and track the leak as best I can and go from there.
Regarding degreasing, the engine is easy enough to do with a can or two of Gunk. Wondering if anyone has any suggestions for getting all the oil off the bottom of the car? It's all over the place.

TiggerDX

iTrader: (1)

I found a pair of jack stands, a tarp, a rain poncho and a few cans of brake cleaner do wonders. Drive onto the tarp, put the front on jack stands, put the rain poncho on and climb under and start spraying.
When I got my car, the head gasket had a pin hole in it and the oil had been spraying out the back for who knows how long.
It took 15 cans of degreaser and almost 20 cans of brake cleaner along with a pressure washer to get all of the oil and grease off. 19 year old engine and every person who looks under the hood comments on how it looks like a new engine.

Carbo

Elbow grease and ingenuity.

Carbo

Did a thorough degreasing of the engine. Will give it some drive time tomorrow to see if the leak can be pinpointed.
Assuming for a moment the distributor O ring is faulty, this seems to be an easy fix. Three bolts removed, pull off the distributor, replace the O ring, and reinstall distributor.
Is there any thing I need to be aware of?

ezone

You will have to remove the dist cap and note the position if the rotor, but that isn't tough. It can only drop in one place correctly (without forcing it) unlike a gear driven distributor.

Mark the distributor base so it can be placed exactly in the same position it was in before. I might use a marker, scribe, a center punch, or strike a chisel across the 2 flats on top (across both the dist casting and head casting), that way I don't need to worry about adjusting ignition timing.

The 3 bolts also leave witness marks, but making my own mark on top is easiest for me to see.

Match marks, various:






You get the idea?








VTEC solenoid gaskets, these are probably hardened and brittle by now...

Carbo

Did a bit of driving and early indication is the leak is from the distributor. So I think my first job is to replace the O ring. It's an inexpensive repair. Valve cover gasket seems dry at this time but I can continue to monitor the situation.
I still have some confusion about this, though. I'm reading that the distributor is needs to be put back in the exact same position as when removed. But it's attached by three bolts so it can only be put back the same way it came off. So what exactly am I marking?

Carbo

Update: did some hard driving this morning and the valve cover gasket is definitely leaking. Replacing it seems easy enough. I see the gasket can be purchased alone or as a kit with all the rubber grommets and plugs for the valve cover. Are these necessary? My local Honda dealer is charging $10 for the gasket and $40 for the kit.
Also, what adhesive is best to use?
Thank you.

TiggerDX

iTrader: (1)

The holes in the dizzy are oblong. You adjust the timing by rotating the dizzy a few degrees either way. There is about a 1/4" of movement available.
I would get the kit and do all while in there. Better to replace the plug seals now than have to redo it later when they start leaking.
I know it costs more but I recommend the Honda Bond gasket sealer. You only use a little at the corners near the cam seals.

Carbo

Bought the gasket kit and sealer from a Honda dealer and installed all a little while ago.
Hopefully this ends the oil leak.
Do I need to wait before starting the engine? How soon after can I use the car?
Thanks for all the help, gents!

ezone

No.
Now.

Carbo

Ugh! Thought I had the leak stopped, but it ain't so. Valve cover gasket was replaced and dry, so that wasn't the problem, or at all of the problem.
Now I'm trying to figure out where it could be leaking from.
I understand that the distributor O ring is a likely culprit, but from my observations it appears to be dry in that area.
I've attached some pics. Hopefully some experienced eyes can take a look and offer up some ideas. Thank you.

ezone

Feel under the distributor cap. If there is a drip hanging between the cap and the base, them remove the dist cap and look inside. It should be dry. I've seen them literally holding a pool of oil inside.

We've seen the front side, now scoot around to the back of the head and look.

The VTEC is about the only common thing left. It certainly can PUMP that much oil out in a very short time.


Clean everything spotless and throw white powder all over it, as I said in my first reply. This makes it incredibly easy to find the source.

schollianmj

crap... I gotta go through this too.... difference is mine is leaking a quart or so every 500 miles. did the VC gasket when I did m head gasket a couple months ago, but I didn't know anything about the dizzy or vtech ones. guess Ill go replace them and see where that gets me. car has about 150,000 on it so I'm sure even if they aren't the issue it couldn't hurt.

ezone

All original rubber gaskets are suspect. They harden and shrink as they age with heat, miles, and time.
Especially the VTEC stuff because it has full engine oil pressure behind it.

The distributor does not have pressurized oil trying to get through its seals.

Carbo

Appreciate all the input. Thank you.
In addition to replacing the distributor O ring I'm also eyeing the VTEC as a source of the leak since there is oil in that area, as well. Never having done this, is this also an easy repair?

ezone

IMO yes. This is a walk in the park.....but I do this stuff for a living.
(It's "Gravy".)

Look for all of the bolts that hold it to the head. Can you get tools on each of the 3 bolts? (I'd hope so.)

The top gasket is easy, if you can find a new gasket.
I have to go back in time (to a 5th gen EX, 1995) to see the upper gasket in my parts catalog. Hope it's the same.

Carbo

ezone, here is what I'm looking at. Is it simply a matter of removing the 3 bolts and replacing the gasket which I assume is sitting right there?
Is there another gasket that might be the cause of the leak while I'm mucking around in there?

ezone

Already covered:
All of the 2 gaskets need done.

Carbo

Ahh. Got it. Thank you!

schollianmj

FYI, Honda does not show the horizontal gasket under the solenoid. Only the one that attaches the vtech assembly to the head. I was told by the honda guy specifically to NOT separate them. and the one gasket they show between the head and the vtech assembly is 23 bucks.

ezone

I show about $20 (USA), but yeah.

I ain't scurred.

Already addressed here:
Someone else here in the forum actually bought this gasket for their 6th gen and reported back that it was correct.
36172-P08-015 is the part # for the upper gasket from a 95 EX

If the $8 gasket doesn't solve it, then you are stuck buying the $370 valve.
I know which one I'd try FIRST if it were me.






The top section (solenoid coil) has 3 bolts and anyone can take it apart. If it already leaks, it will still leak when you reassemble it if you don't get a new gasket. There are small parts that can be lost though, so you gotta be careful. If you lose anything, you will be buying the valve.

schollianmj

ok, so I wil look for a gasket for the 95 civic ex.... But I think my oil leak is coming from the head gasket.... as in head to block.... really dont want to pull the head again on this car.... already did the dizzy gasket and the vtech to head gasket. will to the solenoid gasket tomorrow if honda parts is open. dont know what else could be leaking oil in that area.

Sorry OP, I shouldnt be thread-jacking you....

ezone

This is why I recommend cleaning everything in the area completely spotless, then coating everything with a white powder.
This procedure usually makes the leak source crystal clear, or at least much easier to determine.

I know I don't want to pull a cylinder head on just a wildass guess, and I'm pretty sure my customers wouldn't want me to do that either.

schollianmj

Had cleaned everything up with brake cleaner after doing the two gaskets earlier. oil is coming from near the headgasket line under the dizzy. I will reclean it and do the spray right guard thing tomorrow. does it seem legit for the headgasket to be leaking oil there? I didnt think there was an oil passage there.

ezone

Without having that particular engine already torn apart to see what's actually in that area, I'll say that I THINK the only fluid in that area of the head gasket is coolant.
The oil pressure feed passage between the block and the head is usually between cyls 2 and 3 IIRC.






Did you have the camshaft out, or the cam journal caps off? If so, did you apply fresh sealant to the outer caps?



Can't find an actual pic of the correct engine with what I'm talking about, but this should suffice for the moment
This pic is a little bit excessive with the sealer IMO, but to give you an idea



This isn't the same engine, but you can see the fine red horizontal line of sealer between the head and the cam journal cap that is exposed:

schollianmj

ok, If I understand what piece you are talking about... I might have loosened them when I was trying to figure out how to replace my dizzy... but never pulled them off. just went out and checked with my flashlight, there is no oil at all near that seal... however the Vtech assembly is covered in oil and I KNOW I had cleaned it off completely when I changed its gasket. definitely looking for that 95 civic gasket tomorrow.

This is the oil that is sitting below the Dizzy.



when I did the head gasket I was certain that the oil passages were inboard like you were saying, between 1/2 and 3/4. just pulled a pic of the gasket and that is correct. so if the HG was leaking here it would be coolant not oil... here is a pic I found of the D16y8 block without a head...



Unless that hole in the lower front portion is an oil passage.

ezone

No biggie, I was just pointing out a spot that is often assembled incorrectly when head work is done.

The powder check would show if it was leaking, but I think you already found the real source.
There's no H

I think you nailed it.


Yes, a leaking VTEC set can let oil run across the top of the trans and go to the front.

The 4 large odd shaped holes----- 2 front lower corners and 2 on the intake side (top in the pic) between 1/2 and 3/4, those are return holes for oil to drain from the head down into the crankcase. Those have no significant pressure on them (drain by gravity only), they aren't a likely source of your mess. But yeah, I think coolant would be coming out of the #4 end first if there was a problem.

The only real pressurized oil passage is the small hole dead center on top between 2/3.

HTH