glenscott

hey all i am trying to help a friend with a 99 civc LX that is hemorrhaging oil.

Someone who i consider to be an experienced mechanic took a brief look at it and assured me a new oil pan and gasket would do the trick.

Alas, oil is still pouring out of the poor beast, and at the same flow and at the same place as before, so while i do not deny that i could have installed parts incorrectly it seems unlikely.

The leak is coming from where the oil pan meets the torque converter. There is no oil high on the engine, or around the distributor.

It seems to me this is an rear main seal leak. Any ideas other than that? advice about changing the seal or other things to look for?

ezone

Can't tell you what's wrong with yours, but I can tell you what has really "burned my toast" doing the pan gasket job.

The original gasket is rubber, and has steel washer inserts around each bolt hole.....
The pan is held on with like a million little bolts and 4 nuts.
The 4 studs those nuts go on----pull the pan back off and look at those closely....
The steel washer insert out of an old gasket may have stuck to one or more of those studs and now it holds the pan and new gasket away from the block and pours oil out while running. Pours out a LOT of oil.


Really killed half of my day the first time one did this to me, I actually pulled the trans out thinking it HAD to be the rear main. Nope. But I could really see what the he!! was wrong by the time I had the transmission out of the way LOL.

Same scenario has happened to other people in our shop too, so I figure it could happen to anyone....


HTH

glenscott

Thanks for the advice, I will end up re-applying the pan, not only because of your advice but also because i foolishly thought that maybe the nuts just needed a bit of snugging up past there recommend torque value, some of these bolts where very rusty. Now i need a new bolt stud for the oil pan and to extract the old one from the block. so much for a couple hour job.

ezone

You should probably lay the pan on a flat surface and make sure it has not been seriously bent anywhere along the sealing edges too.

glenscott

Well, finallty got back around to it and guess what? it was the rear main oil seal

redid the oil pan, still bleeding out, so pulled the tranny and there was no rubber left on the seal, i had to drill a tiny hole in what was left of the seal to get a screw in there to get it out. the shitty thing is, a used tranny was just put in this car by a shop three weeks ago. what was left of the seal did not look very old.

got a new seal in, the only thing left is that i cant find a torque value for the flex-plate to torque converter bolts, the closet thing to them in my Haynes guide gives me is drive-plate to flywheel bolts and rates them at 106 ft lbs!!! it seems like a whole lot of torque for a 10mm bolt.

anyone have any clues?

Mad Dog Tannen

I would say rear main seal. it's in the right location and it sounds like you ruled out the oil pan.

glenscott

hey so im bumping to find out the Torque value, but also, i may have to start a new thread for this,

The transmission is no longer engaging after i put it back on. I tried turning the crank to expose each bolt on the torque converter, and there was some resistance, i figured it must be in park or something so i shift the gears, i tried turning it again a little resistance a small pop then it turned the torque converter freely, but it does not seem to be engaging the drive shaft. the flex plate is bolted just not torqued down. did i break the tranny by turning the crank?

ezone

Drive plate = flex plate.

Bolts with 12x1.0 thread, usually takes a 12 point socket

54 ft-lb




If the torque converter was not fully seated before the trans was shoved against the engine, and you forced it together by tightening the bellhousing bolts, then you may have damaged something.


However....
You have not run the engine yet? It COULD be ok. Keep installing it.
This is NOT a manual trans.... The automatic has no physical link between the crankshaft and the axles, there is only a fluid coupling. Axles will not turn when you spin the crank or torque converter.

glenscott

THANK YOU VERY MUCH! I have never messed with an auto trans before, this is very informative.

This thread i just found says that the flex plate to TC bolts should be torqued to 8.7 ft lbs.

http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2770008

That would be about 106 in lbs right? i double checked my guide and it says ft-lbs. maybe a typo? I tried to torque them to 57 ft-lbs, very slowly, heard a crack, and backed out. the bolt cracked but thankfully did not break.

they are 10mm hex bolts. not 12 point.

again you have been very helpful.

ezone

The 54 ft-lb is for the crankshaft-to-flexplate bolts.
Sorry, I have a reading problem. That's why I get to park in the spaces with wheelchair pictures.

That's the 6x1.0 thread, 10mm head bolts.
Common sense should have told you that 106 ft-lb was wrong for such a small bolt.
There are 12 inches in a foot....

8.7 x 12 = ?? in-lb. (104.4 in-lb)