krakozhianjoe

First time rookie here... I know very little about diy car stuff, and would love any ideas here... just flushed coolant a couple days ago but now overheating in a matter of 10 min or less... cannot drive now. Head gasket? Something else? What other info would be helpful?

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Hmm.... Did you bleed the coolant system correctly when you flushed it?

krakozhianjoe

I just opened reservoir and rad cap, opened cap below rad and let drain. Then capped and added filtered water, ran engine for 10 min, then drained and replaced with 50/50... strangely I was running fine this weekend after replacement. Just todays commute seemed over the top.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Well... that's not how you properly flush a coolant system. Your best bet is to drain the system again, and bleed it properly. To do this:

1. Make sure the car is cold.
2. Remove the radiator cap.
3. Have the front of the car in the air, either on a sloped driveway or jacked up.
4. Put drip pan under car, remove the plug from the bottom of the radiator and let fluid drain.
5. Put the drain plug back in the bottom of the radiator.
6. Pour 50/50 coolant into the radiator.
7. Get inside the car, and put the heat on the highest fan setting and maximum heat.
8. Start the car.
9. Have a smoke and watch the coolant level go down in the radiator.
10.As the coolant level drops, fill it up.
11.This procedure could take up to a half hour.
12.Once the level in the radiator stops dropping, you know there is no more air in the system, also make sure the temperature gauge has reached where it normally runs at.
13.Shut the car off.
14.Replace the radiator cap.
15.Put the car down < important
16.Make sure the overflow is at the appropriate level ( HOT LEVEL )
17.Drive with no more overheating

Make sure your using Honda coolant, not the prestone stuff you put in. Hopefully you haven't destroyed the engine already. The only reason I say to replace the coolant again is when you flushed it with water (not properly) you probably ruined your 50/50 ratio, so better safe than sorry to replace the coolant again. Do research, and do things right the first time so your not spending money doing it twice.

krakozhianjoe

I will be following your instructions tonight step by step. I am concerned that maybe there is damage? I did pull over when it overheated and let it cool before driving the last half mile home. In just that short distance home, it overheated again and was smoking from under the hood once I stopped... Another idea I had was the radiator cap replacement that Oreilly gave me has listed "1.1" on the cap, whereas the old cap says "0.9". Is that a problem as well? I won't be taking any advice from auto parts store employees... they also advised not spending the money on Honda coolant and that the Prestone would work just fine. I am concerned at this point I will have to replace head gasket? So low on funds, I need to learn to do this on my own. I appreciate this community so much already...

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

The cap could definitely be a problem, the cap pressurizes the system so your new cap has around 3 more PSI than the old one which means its putting more strain on the cooling system components which may be old or deteriorating. I would go back to a .9 bar cap, stay OEM to keep the pressure the way it's supposed to be.

OEM Coolant is low silicate and is designed for your engine, it will prevent gaskets and such from wearing out which is what you want. Prestone is just regular coolant loaded with silicates.

1 overheat can cause head gasket failure, I'm not saying that it has created it but your first step is to change the coolant again properly. It might be a good idea to do a flush since you used the wrong coolant.

Don't listen to auto part store employees... It's like getting advice from someone at Wal-Mart about engines, they have no idea WTF is going on

krakozhianjoe

Good thought. I started reading through your sig link "Overheating: Heres Why" and that is full of great info. I was thinking, now that there is all of this soupy gunk in the radiator and hoses, almost like softserve icecream, should I still just drain and replace with the method you prescribed, or is it now necessary to flush it or clean it out somehow first?

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Flush it out because you don't want to mix prestone coolant with Honda. Even when you flush it make sure you use distilled water, not hose water.

This actually isn't too bad:
http://howtoflusharadiator.net/

krakozhianjoe

Ok... so I am at step 9 and the coolant is not dropping... in fact it does this foaming out of the radiator opening. Could this be something else like a thermostat?

Stock 99

When you're doing step 9 you have to get the engine hot enough to trigger the rad fan to come on 2x. At this point the Tstat will open up the and allow the coolant to fully cycle through the system. Until the Tstat opens it will tend to well up and over the top of the rad a little bit. It shouldn't **** out over the top though. When I did mine I actually had to rev the engine up around 1500 rpms to get it hot enough for the fan to trigger.

BTW - Overheating your engine almost always results in warping the head. Do your best to flush it but most likely your going to have to replace the head gasket and machine the head. Hate to break it to you.

krakozhianjoe

its been about 30 minutes...I've added a slight amount of coolant maybe a cups worth... fan is definitely blasting hot air. Engine does seem to be running rough. Not over heating atm. Going to lower and replace cap now and take a spin.

krakozhianjoe

How can I tell if therm kicks in?

Stock 99

When you had the rad cap off you should have been able to see the coolant circulating when the tstat opened. If you didn't it might be plugged with that soupy foam you described. If it's not opening your engine will overheat. It's not very hard to remove a tstat.


EDIT: If you water pump has failed. The coolant will not circulate either. Your engine will overheat and most likely there are some unhealthy noises coming from around the belt area of your engine. If this is happening then stop driving it before you do some real damage.

krakozhianjoe

Took it for a spin. Overheated and spewed coolant after flush while driving. Used honda coolant. Followed directions to the t but flushed with distilled wtr first. Can I test thermostat? I read somewhere here that you can remove and drop in water and boil and see if it opens? I will maybe replace tstat tomorrow if you guys think its a good next step.

I just noticed your edit... perhaps that should be replaced too?

Stock 99

Yes, that's how you test a tstat. Drop it into boiling water and you'll physically be able to see it open. Tstats are like $10 so if you're going to crack it open you might as well just replace it.

I hate to break it to you again but spewing coolant is a sure sign the head gasket is blown, changing the tstat won't solve anything at this point.

krakozhianjoe

I was afraid so. The dealer locally is charging 195 for the gasket kit. This is going to take me forever im afraid. Honestly is the gasket change something that I can complete as a noob ? I can't seem to figure it out based on the chiltons guide. Is there a step by step for my engine type around here? And I mean complete step by step for completely inexperienced folks...?

Stock 99

Hmm, I didn't see one around this forum but this should give you some idea...

http://hondaswap.com/general-tech-ar...ts-pics-71528/

It's not a piece of cake.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

I wouldn't attempt a gasket unless you have some mechanical experience. The idea that a head warps almost every time you overheat the car just isn't true, but a head gasket blowing is likely even with only 1 overheat.

krakozhianjoe

I read the walkthrough that Stock 99 posted... and it gives me a general idea of the process. I may have a bit of help from a mechanic willing to pitch in for a couple hours, but he wants me to get all of the parts needed. Is the pump something that I should do just in case while I am at it? So far I'll get the oem gasket kit, MORE honda coolant and oil, a torch wrench (which I do not own one), a new tstat, shop towels!. Anything else?

Stock 99

It would make a lot of sense to do the water pump and timing belt while your in there. I know people aren't made of money but if your in there anyway. Either that or take it to a mechanic for proper diagnoses before you start tearing it apart.

Just because I said it sounds like a head gasket doesn't make it so.

You should probably get a new tappet gasket and engine oil as well.

krakozhianjoe

You guys are going to laugh, or facepalm, but I changed the tstat tonight, which btw it was bad. But what is worse is I was looking around and discovered a belt is gone... take a look:

Stock 99

Meh, looks like your A/C belt. You didn't really need that anyway. LOL

krakozhianjoe

I'll tell you what, now I have a new dilemma... so I have had (3) rad caps and none are the correct type. The dealership gave me the same one as Autozone, and neither match. My Honda radiator, model PA66+PA612~G, previously had a cap with a .9 on it. The new ones they are giving me say 1.1. I have searched and searched and cannot seem to find this cap... some indications are that it is actually an Acura or older Civic model radiator, but I cannot find the cap and the guy at the dealership was clueless about it. The rad fan was not coming on either yesterday after the tstat change, but I didnt check before that to see if it ever came on at all. Im thinking that a rad replacement may be inevitable? I'm trying to narrow down the problem before replacing headgasket, if for anything, to at least solve the problem that cause the HG prob in the first place... is the fan not coming on related to a bad radiator? Anyone know about this rad cap size?

krakozhianjoe

And the AC belt... doesnt that operate the water pump as well? Maybe that is a source of the problem?

Stock 99

No, your A/C belt only drives the A/C. No belt no A/C that's all. Your water pump is driven off the timing belt which is inside the plastic cover directly to the left of the A/C belt.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

It's your head gasket, and apparently a bad leak. What's happening is exhaust gases are filling the coolant system displacing coolant and causing it to foam up

krakozhianjoe

Had a mechanic look at it since rad fan was not kicking on. There was a crack in radiator. Replaced with new, and overheating stopped for now. Need to replace timing belt though, and there is a rear gasket there causing a good size leak that needs to be replaced... can you guys tell source of leak based on picture? I can post another later showing more area.

jack harter

Kragen Part # 7037 They have 2 styles for the Hi neck and Low neck radiator. Match your part

jack harter

O'Reilys has cap # 7037 but there are 2 styles for hi neck and lo nec radiator match your part

project5k

IF its the head gasket, i would expect to find one or more of the following, I've not heard mention of any....
1) continous stream of bubbles appearing in the radiator, (exaust gases escaping the combustion chamber and entering the water jacket,
2) there would be white smoke(really steam) out the exaust. coolant being sucked into the combustion chamber, and then heated and expelled with exaust,
3) oil in the coolant system (unlikely, but i have seen it once)
4) water in the oil(milky oil, seen this one too)

I'm not saying there aren't other fail modes for a head gasket, i'm just not yet convinced...

on the radiator cap, a higher pressure rating would raise the pressure in the coolant system, and this would raise the boiling point of the coolant. that is as long as these other caps are making a good seal. no seal, and it dosen't matter what pressure its rated for cuz the system is operating "open"

thought these might spark discussion.