Alpine revisited

82801BA · 10-01-2006

Before I give any opinion about the new lineup, I have to tell you that I am absolutely an Alpine fans. What I am trying to say in this thread is that, the new lineup makes me very disappointed, quality wise.

The 2006 head unit lineup (CD section) is pretty much going backward. The displays resembles the state-of-the-art Alpine CD player, and they all have the newest technology available to them, such as HD radio, bluetooth, etc. However, looking deep into the quality of the product, Alpine tends to going backward.

First of all, even the most expensive CD player, CDA-9857, does not have motorized display. I don't think it is a vital but it is more convenient to have it because inserting a CD will becoming 4-pass process: open, eject, insert, close vs. open/eject, insert, close (3-pass). The detachable face also acts the same: press open, then pull the face out from the CD player.

The 2006 lineup lacks the patented Media Expander (except 9820XM, which has been around for 3 years). Even though I don't think it is necessary if the output devices-amp, speakers, etc. are "nice" enough, a lot of people still like this fuction. Some units are equipped with the old-dated BBE sound processing, which I don't think is very useful. The CD players are equppied with the decade-old 1-bit regulated DAC, so there's no advancement in sound quality at all. The worst thing is, there is no more pre-amp only CD player which features optical digital output, which makes building a good SQ system will rely on F#1 Status lineup.

It may look like one can use DVD player to build SQ system along with some Ai-Net processor, right? I don't think so. I own a DVA-7996 from 2003 lineup, and a PXA-H701 processor. The reason why it is not too SQ friendly is that, if you have a high quality LPCM disc, such as a 24bit/192kHz system testing disc, the digital output automatically down-sample to 16bit/48kHz. Mathematically it is a huge loss in signal and cannot be recovered on the processor side. PXA-H701 has internal MDAC, as DVA-7996 do. It will take whatever signal goes in to convert to analog out. So a 16/48 is still a 16/48 converted to analog. The only way that can retain 24/96 (max resolution in both units) for CD is to use output analog from the DVD player side output to whatever processor for EQ. It may help some, but it can't do 5.1 setup if Ai-Net analog is used.

Talking about the amplifiers, I only recommend using PDX amps for the main speaker, as I am using one now. It is much better in mid to high frequency reproduction, but may not be suitable for midbass and sub-bass due to damping factor issue.

The high-end Type-X speakers are also retarded somehow. Crossovers do not have the same high quality compared to the old Type-X. I get this information from actually buying a pair of the new Type-X and compare to the old Type-X. The worst part lies on the speaker itself. The old top Type-X (F17M, F15M, F17T) features a Danish made Scan-Speak tweeter and a Danish made Vifa woofer (or two woofers). The new one are from a Chinese made Vifa ring radiator and woofer. It may seem like ring radiator is better because it is unique in car audio. However, ring radiator gives out a lot of high frequencies up to 60kHz, which is not useful at all, and may be human to feel uncomfortable. The frequency response is not anywhere near flat, even on-axis response. In addition to that, one will get very poor performance if it is off-axis by using ring radiator.

I am not going to get into mobile video and alot of other stuffs because I am still researching those area. But what I can say is, if you are looking at IVA-W200 and is not familiar with it, looking at Honda Navigation System. These are basically the same unit but W200 do not have navigation function, and HNS do not have DVD playing capability.

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4Saris · 10-01-2006

I agree with you for the most part. However, I've had 2 decks go bad in the last 4 years, both were due to the motorized face. Granted, they were Kenwoods, but I think going away from the motorized face is to reduce the # of returns, refurbs, and warranty claims.

82801BA · 10-01-2006

I agree the motorized face too. I think it may be partially due to the workmanship of China. You know, people in China just sucks. j/k, I am Chinese, but I know Chinese people just care about profits, not about quality.

turboslug · 10-02-2006

i thought media expander was garbage...it was probably useful only if your speakers were crap...bbe isn't so bad...the idea behind bbe is similar to time correction but less adjustments are available....it alters the phase slightly to compensate uncentered speakers in a car...it's not bad for people who are clueless how to set up time correction settings properly...

boxcarracer · 10-02-2006

i like the 9857 and 9856 just not the fact it dosent come with a remote....remote ready but not with the remote (9856)....was it so hard to add the 19.99 controller Its amazing how a simple remote can make a sale. Everyone at work says ok Sir sounds good but does it have a remote?...no...Then ill stick with the neat Pioneer but for the most part we pretty much sold out of alpine 9856 and 9852 and sell well with the ipod adapter. and motors...meh people break them a lot and return them all the time happens with the Kenwoods at work (very common)

lxcivic2k1 · 10-02-2006

My 9830 is stilling going good after 2 years, motorized faceplate and all. I don't use the media expander except when I took out the subs when it went into the shop.
It seems like as a company gets larger and larger they forget about the little things that made them the company today, quality. I love all the Alpine I have, HU, Amp, and my 2 12s, but they're 2 years old now. Haven't really got to play with the new stuff so can't really speak on that from personal experience. Hopefully they get their act together tho.

boxcarracer · 10-02-2006

did you know they have a alpine face in the CCX the car i forgot how to spell coneigsegg kinda funny amzing machine that scared jeremy from Top Gear has a alpine face

82801BA · 10-02-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by turboslug

i thought media expander was garbage...it was probably useful only if your speakers were crap...bbe isn't so bad...the idea behind bbe is similar to time correction but less adjustments are available....it alters the phase slightly to compensate uncentered speakers in a car...it's not bad for people who are clueless how to set up time correction settings properly...

I am agree that MX is garbage, but at least some of the people likes it

. I don't do time correction too. Instead I do "phase matching" from the physical speaker, and EQ it somehow (provide that I have a good amp) to set up a stage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lxcivic2k1

...It seems like as a company gets larger and larger they forget about the little things that made them the company today, quality...

Yes, the totally forgot what they get their name famous of. Not from versatility, but from the product quality and sound quality they made in the last decade.

genexrocket · 10-02-2006

just got an iva-w200 and i love it, soo much better than my deh-8600mp(ipod connection wise), planning to get the blackbird navi to attatch it to soon