[boostaddict]

Just wanted to add my two cents. If someone has 2 JL 13W7s in their car and then installs ONE Ascendant Audio Avalanche 15 and is shocked by how good subwoofers can sound, that should tell you guys something. One whatever W7 costs what, 400 on a good day? You can get one of the ascendant audio avalanche 15s for 300. I was a huge fan of JL untill i heard these subs. the 12s hit like any other 15 and transition as fast as a 10. the 15s are just stupid. The biggest advandages are the second non-powered coil that can be used to tune the Q to your car/box and the fact that they WILL NOT bottom out. You need to get like 3 inches of XMAX before you start damaging the cone. That is a lot of air. I am putting 2 12" atlas subs in my car after hearing one 15 avalanche make my ears hurt in a suburban. One guy is getting 147+ dB SPL in his civic with 2 12s. Plus they go higher frequency wise (200+ hz) making midbass almost a thing of the past. Just my 2 cents. Oh yea, they dont need a buttload of power. Around 500 good watts rms a sub in a sealed box makes them happy, less in a ported or IB setup. So less drain on the charging system.

[radioactive77]

jl better replace them considering how much people spend on that sub.

and how many of you have actually tried other high end subs that dont have huge names for themselves?

jl is big just because they have good marketing. not because they make thee best sub.

IDMAX's are very sweet, i dont think anyone can beat the sound quality that these subs produce on top of haveing more cone area then 99% of other subs out there with aalsdo makes these subs VERY loud. and there only like 300 for a 12.

[slick]

my local shop recently put two 12w6v2 subs in a ported box in a tahoe. the put just a 500/1 on them and let me tell you, this sucker got loud. i was very impressed. at lower volumes, the entire system sounded great. i never heard the w6v2 ported before, but after hearing that tahoe, i am very impressed.

[PopcornPlaya]

Originally Posted by radioactive77

jl better replace them considering how much people spend on that sub.

and how many of you have actually tried other high end subs that dont have huge names for themselves?

jl is big just because they have good marketing. not because they make thee best sub.

IDMAX's are very sweet, i dont think anyone can beat the sound quality that these subs produce on top of haveing more cone area then 99% of other subs out there with aalsdo makes these subs VERY loud. and there only like 300 for a 12.

I've installed, listened to, etc IDMAX's, Brahmas, w7's, Solo X's, MTX RFL's, among others. The W7's still get my vote every time. True, the others can be had much cheaper, but I still keep going back to the w7's. They aren't practical for teh average consumer though, because of the high cost. Just MHO.

[J187]

Originally Posted by boostaddict

Just wanted to add my two cents. If someone has 2 JL 13W7s in their car and then installs ONE Ascendant Audio Avalanche 15 and is shocked by how good subwoofers can sound, that should tell you guys something. One whatever W7 costs what, 400 on a good day? You can get one of the ascendant audio avalanche 15s for 300. I was a huge fan of JL untill i heard these subs. the 12s hit like any other 15 and transition as fast as a 10. the 15s are just stupid. The biggest advandages are the second non-powered coil that can be used to tune the Q to your car/box and the fact that they WILL NOT bottom out. You need to get like 3 inches of XMAX before you start damaging the cone. That is a lot of air. I am putting 2 12" atlas subs in my car after hearing one 15 avalanche make my ears hurt in a suburban. One guy is getting 147+ dB SPL in his civic with 2 12s. Plus they go higher frequency wise (200+ hz) making midbass almost a thing of the past. Just my 2 cents. Oh yea, they dont need a buttload of power. Around 500 good watts rms a sub in a sealed box makes them happy, less in a ported or IB setup. So less drain on the charging system.

To say the avalanche hits like a 15 and transitions as fast as a 10 is definitely an overstatement. I agree with you it's a great sub, and that it hit's mad low. But it doesn't is quite as versatile as you make it sound. And to say that someone got better sound out of a single AA than they did out of 2 W7s means that they didn't have the W7s setup right in the first place. Not to mention, it shouldn't Tell you anything what one person thinks. Just because you may know someone that switched from JL to AA doesn't mean that makes it a better woofer. I know someone that swapped the Polykevlars that came in his Porsche 928 because he liked infinity better. Does that mean we should assume that Focal has fallen to Infinity? Of course not, it's just preference. Another too, why do you want midbass to be a thing of the past? I personally wan't my front stage drivers to be capable of playing midbass to the fullest extant. It's a way to bring bass up front where it belongs! I settle for sub bass to be in trunk Because it's a car and that's the best option, but I'm not about to start moving my midbass out of front stage too.

Originally Posted by radioactive77

jl better replace them considering how much people spend on that sub.

and how many of you have actually tried other high end subs that dont have huge names for themselves?

jl is big just because they have good marketing. not because they make thee best sub.

IDMAX's are very sweet, i dont think anyone can beat the sound quality that these subs produce on top of haveing more cone area then 99% of other subs out there with aalsdo makes these subs VERY loud. and there only like 300 for a 12.

They better replace it? Why? it was out of warranty and I blew it up. How many other companies you think would take it on themselves to replace a $450 for someone when they didn't have to? Also, you don't honestly think that JL's legacy was built solely on thier rep do you? You don't think that along with great marketing, they make some of the best car audio equipment around? I'm not saying good, better, best, that's all subjective. But they are up with all the other top companies. Somewhat expensive, but you get what you pay for quality wise. Jl's slash series amps are reasonably priced comparitively - they rival some of the most expensive amps out there like Arc and Tru.

Originally Posted by slick

my local shop recently put two 12w6v2 subs in a ported box in a tahoe. the put just a 500/1 on them and let me tell you, this sucker got loud. i was very impressed. at lower volumes, the entire system sounded great. i never heard the w6v2 ported before, but after hearing that tahoe, i am very impressed.

I know a guy who was 2 10W6V2s, ported in a Civic. Wait. . .It's me


Bottom line, I'm not saying AA doesn't make good stuff and I'm not saying your crazy or wrong for liking it better than JL. But I am gonna call the hand when people start making inflated claims or implying bad qualities in companies like JL which are fruitless claims.

[Regularjoe]

Stupid question.

Everyone keeps saying JL is all in the marketing. I rarely see them advertise aside from a few car magazines here and there. What is everyone referring to?

All I have experienced is a damn good product line, that sells itself, mostly by word of mouth from devoted customers. I feel I can go buy any JL product and know that it will sound good, get plenty loud, be very sleek looking w/o being flashy, and be a nice quality product.

[J187]

Originally Posted by Regularjoe

Stupid question.

Everyone keeps saying JL is all in the marketing. I rarely see them advertise aside from a few car magazines here and there. What is everyone referring to?

All I have experienced is a damn good product line, that sells itself, mostly by word of mouth from devoted customers. I feel I can go buy any JL product and know that it will sound good, get plenty loud, be very sleek looking w/o being flashy, and be a nice quality product.

Simple, people are mistaking word-of-mouth advertisement for a marketing.

[radioactive77]

im syaing jl audio has great adds they put out in magazines and such and then you always see them on tv shows like unique whips etc.. it gives them a great name all though that do make good stuff.

im not saying they suck there amps are awesome but there subs arent the greatest IMHO.

the w7 is good for spl but for all around performance its definetely not up there.

and alot of companies i have delt with will work with you on replacing or fixing things outside of the warranty. whether its the costumers fault or not.

some companies like to go the extra mile and help people out.

and like i said this whole topic is about one guy wanting to be LOUD and w7 are rarely, if ever in a winning cometition, and i know he may not compete, but there is a reason that people dont use these subs in competitions.

its loud for a consumer, a little overpriced, and hard to get a deal on because you can only get from authorized dealer, or used. unless you know someone special.

[J187]

From JLAUDIO.com:

JL Audio Wins Eleven Autosound Grand Prix Awards

Miramar, FL—JL Audio has been awarded eleven Auto Sound Grand Prix Awards by Audio Video International magazine—a leading trade publication for the consumer electronics industry.

The Autosound Grand Prix Awards is an annual event which takes place each March. It offers retailers a voice in choosing the best products of the year based on the following criteria: sound fidelity, design and engineering, reliability, user-and installer-friendliness, product integrity and value-for-price/performance.

The following JL Audio components received Grand Prix status:

JL Audio 500/1 (Single-Channel Amps)
JL Audio 300/2 (Stereo Amps up to 300W)
JL Audio 300/4 (Four Channel Amps 200W & Over)
JL Audio 500/5 (Other Multi-Channel Amps)
JL Audio TR650-CSi (Component Systems up to $250)
JL Audio XR650-CSi (Component Systems $250 & Over)
JL Audio 10W6v2 (10" Subs)
JL Audio 12W7 (12" Subs)
JL Audio 15W3 (15" & Over Subs)
JL Audio HO112R-W7 (Sub Enclosures)
JL Audio Stealthboxes (OEM-Fit Products: Audio)


JL Audio — Number One Overall for Fifth Year Straight in Inside Track Survey

Miramar, Florida—February 2003—Retailers nationwide have voted and JL Audio onceagain has received the coveted overall first-place position in the car audio category of Inside Track’s annual Supplier Loyalty Test survey. The survey measures how well a company performs on a wide range of parameters, all related to a successful partnership between manufacturers and independent specialists/custom installers.

JL Audio finished #1 Overall among car audio companies by placing in the top four (out of 19 companies) of all voting categories.

JL Audio President, Andy Oxenhorn said: "Being voted #1 for the fifth straight year is a wonderful honor and a significant vote of confidence from our dealer base."

[eye_see_you]

well after all thise I decided to put together a list by manufacture, model number and website plus price if listed. All of these were referenced by the latest car audio mag and is no where near completion but its a start of what I gathered and thought may be useful

Also all of these subs are 1000 watts rms or more:
www.alphasonik.com
Alphasonik
PSW815 15" Sub 1000 RMS 2000 peak 440$ ea

www.atomiccloudspeaker.com
Atomic Subs
APX18D/Q 18 " Sub 3000 RMS 10000 Peak
APX15D/Q 15 " Sub 3000 RMS 10000 Peak
APX12D/Q 12 " Sub 3000 RMS 10000 Peak
APX10D/Q 10 " Sub 3000 RMS 10000 Peak

APXX18D/Q 18 " Sub 4000 RMS 10000 Peak
APXX15D/Q 15 " Sub 4000 RMS 10000 Peak
APXX12D/Q 12 " Sub 4000 RMS 10000 Peak

www.audiobahninc.com
AudioBahn Subs
AWIS15P 15" Sub 2000 RMS 600$ ea
AWIS12P 12" Sub 2250 RMS 500$ ea
AWIS10P 10" Sub 2250 RMS 400$ ea

AW1508T 15" Sub 2000 RMS 590$ ea
AW1208T 12" Sub 1500 RMS 450$ ea
AW1008T 10" Sub 1000 RMS 400$ ea

www.cadencesound.com
Cadence Subs
WB102 10" Sub 1200 RMS 269$ ea
WB104 10" Sub 1200 RMS 269$ ea
WB122 12" Sub 1400 RMS 329$ ea
WB124 12" Sub 1400 RMS 329$ ea
WB152 15" Sub 1500 RMS 439$ ea
WB154 15" Sub 1500 RMS 439$ ea
BM121 12" Sub 5000 RMS 699$ ea
BM122 12" Sub 5000 RMS 699$ ea
BM151 15" Sub 5000 RMS 749$ ea
BM152 15" Sub 5000 RMS 749$ ea

www.cerwin-vega.com
Cerwin Vega Subs
Stroker Pro 15" 4000 RMS 1699$ ea
Stroker Pro 12" 4000 RMS 1399$ ea

Stroker 102 10" 4000 RMS 599$ ea 2 ohm
Stroker 104 10" 4000 RMS 599$ ea 4 ohm
Stroker 122 12" 4000 RMS 749$ ea 2 ohm
Stroker 124 12" 4000 RMS 749$ ea 4ohm
Stroker 152 15" 4000 RMS 899$ ea 2 ohm
Stroker 154 15" 4000 RMS 899$ ea 4 ohm

www.concept-intl.net
Concept Subs
CSP-15 15" sub 2000 RMS 1249$ ea

www.icontv.org
Critical Mass Subs
P1022 10" 1500 RMS 627$ ea
P1222 12" 1500 RMS 747$ ea
P1522 15" 1500 RMS 897$ ea

X-12L 12" 3000 RMS 999$ ea
X-10L 10" 3000 RMS 899$ ea

www.crystalmobilesound.com
Crystal Audio
COMP X212 12" 3200 rms 700$ ea
COMP X215 15" 3200 rms 800$ ea

www.cuttingedgeaudio.com
Cutting Edge
CET12 12" 1600 rms 520$ ea
CET15 15" 3200 rms 560$ ea

www.diabloaudio.com
Diablo Audio
Diablo 15 15" 1000 rms 250$ ea
Diablo 15.2 15" 1000 rms 250$ ea
Diablo 15 db 15" 1500 rms 500$ ea
Diablo 15.2 db 15" 1500 rms 500$ ea
Diablo 12 db 12" 1200 rms 400$ ea
Diablo 12.2 db 12" 1200 rms 400$

www.diamondaudio.com
Diamond Audio
D910D2 10" 1000 rms 630$ ea
D912D2 12" 1200 rms 760$ ea
D915D2 15" 1500 rms 920$ ea

D615D2 15" 1000 rms 450$ ea

www.digitalaudio.com
Digital Designs Audio
DD3510d 10" 1000 rms Price tba
DD3512d 12" 1000 rms Price tba
DD3515d 15" 1000 rms Price tba

DD9510f 10" 1200 rms Price tba
DD9512f 12" 1200 rms Price tba
DD9515f 15" 1200 rms Price tba
DD9518f 18" 1200 rms Price tba

DD9910c 10" 1500 rms Price tba
DD9912c 12" 1500 rms Price tba
DD9915c 15" 1500 rms Price tba
DD9918c 18" 1500 rms Price tba

www.eclipse-web.com
Eclipse Audio
SW9182PRO 18" 3000 rms 1499$ ea
SW9152PRO 15" 3000 rms 1200$ tba

SW9152 15" 1500 rms 700$ ea
SW9122 12" 1500 rms 600$ ea
SW9102 10" 1500 rms 500$ ea

[radioactive77]

i meant spl competions no SQ,

but who cares about grand prix awards, just because someone gets an award for som sort of new innovation in technology or engineering doesnt mean its sounds the best or is the loudest

they would give me a grand prix if i made a 12 foot sub but i know it will sound like ass.

like i said 90%install and 10% product!

you can make anything sound good and ill spend less doing it.

[J187]

Originally Posted by eye_see_you

well after all thise I decided to put together a list by manufacture, model number and website plus price if listed. All of these were referenced by the latest car audio mag and is no where near completion but its a start of what I gathered and thought may be useful

Also all of these subs are 1000 watts rms or more:
www.alphasonik.com
Alphasonik
PSW815 15" Sub 1000 RMS 2000 peak 440$ ea

www.atomiccloudspeaker.com
Atomic Subs
APX18D/Q 18 " Sub 3000 RMS 10000 Peak
APX15D/Q 15 " Sub 3000 RMS 10000 Peak
APX12D/Q 12 " Sub 3000 RMS 10000 Peak
APX10D/Q 10 " Sub 3000 RMS 10000 Peak

APXX18D/Q 18 " Sub 4000 RMS 10000 Peak
APXX15D/Q 15 " Sub 4000 RMS 10000 Peak
APXX12D/Q 12 " Sub 4000 RMS 10000 Peak

www.audiobahninc.com
AudioBahn Subs
AWIS15P 15" Sub 2000 RMS 600$ ea
AWIS12P 12" Sub 2250 RMS 500$ ea
AWIS10P 10" Sub 2250 RMS 400$ ea

AW1508T 15" Sub 2000 RMS 590$ ea
AW1208T 12" Sub 1500 RMS 450$ ea
AW1008T 10" Sub 1000 RMS 400$ ea

www.cadencesound.com
Cadence Subs
WB102 10" Sub 1200 RMS 269$ ea
WB104 10" Sub 1200 RMS 269$ ea
WB122 12" Sub 1400 RMS 329$ ea
WB124 12" Sub 1400 RMS 329$ ea
WB152 15" Sub 1500 RMS 439$ ea
WB154 15" Sub 1500 RMS 439$ ea
BM121 12" Sub 5000 RMS 699$ ea
BM122 12" Sub 5000 RMS 699$ ea
BM151 15" Sub 5000 RMS 749$ ea
BM152 15" Sub 5000 RMS 749$ ea

www.cerwin-vega.com
Cerwin Vega Subs
Stroker Pro 15" 4000 RMS 1699$ ea
Stroker Pro 12" 4000 RMS 1399$ ea

Stroker 102 10" 4000 RMS 599$ ea 2 ohm
Stroker 104 10" 4000 RMS 599$ ea 4 ohm
Stroker 122 12" 4000 RMS 749$ ea 2 ohm
Stroker 124 12" 4000 RMS 749$ ea 4ohm
Stroker 152 15" 4000 RMS 899$ ea 2 ohm
Stroker 154 15" 4000 RMS 899$ ea 4 ohm

www.concept-intl.net
Concept Subs
CSP-15 15" sub 2000 RMS 1249$ ea

www.icontv.org
Critical Mass Subs
P1022 10" 1500 RMS 627$ ea
P1222 12" 1500 RMS 747$ ea
P1522 15" 1500 RMS 897$ ea

X-12L 12" 3000 RMS 999$ ea
X-10L 10" 3000 RMS 899$ ea

www.crystalmobilesound.com
Crystal Audio
COMP X212 12" 3200 rms 700$ ea
COMP X215 15" 3200 rms 800$ ea

www.cuttingedgeaudio.com
Cutting Edge
CET12 12" 1600 rms 520$ ea
CET15 15" 3200 rms 560$ ea

www.diabloaudio.com
Diablo Audio
Diablo 15 15" 1000 rms 250$ ea
Diablo 15.2 15" 1000 rms 250$ ea
Diablo 15 db 15" 1500 rms 500$ ea
Diablo 15.2 db 15" 1500 rms 500$ ea
Diablo 12 db 12" 1200 rms 400$ ea
Diablo 12.2 db 12" 1200 rms 400$

www.diamondaudio.com
Diamond Audio
D910D2 10" 1000 rms 630$ ea
D912D2 12" 1200 rms 760$ ea
D915D2 15" 1500 rms 920$ ea

D615D2 15" 1000 rms 450$ ea

www.digitalaudio.com
Digital Designs Audio
DD3510d 10" 1000 rms Price tba
DD3512d 12" 1000 rms Price tba
DD3515d 15" 1000 rms Price tba

DD9510f 10" 1200 rms Price tba
DD9512f 12" 1200 rms Price tba
DD9515f 15" 1200 rms Price tba
DD9518f 18" 1200 rms Price tba

DD9910c 10" 1500 rms Price tba
DD9912c 12" 1500 rms Price tba
DD9915c 15" 1500 rms Price tba
DD9918c 18" 1500 rms Price tba

www.eclipse-web.com
Eclipse Audio
SW9182PRO 18" 3000 rms 1499$ ea
SW9152PRO 15" 3000 rms 1200$ tba

SW9152 15" 1500 rms 700$ ea
SW9122 12" 1500 rms 600$ ea
SW9102 10" 1500 rms 500$ ea

IMPORTANT NOTE- PRICES THAT ARE GIVEN BY CAR AUDIO MAG ARE MSRP AND IN NO WAY REPRESENTS WHAT YOU'D PAY ONLINE OR EVEN LOCALLY AT A SHOP FOR THAT MATTER.

Originally Posted by radioactive77

i meant spl competions no SQ,

but who cares about grand prix awards, just because someone gets an award for som sort of new innovation in technology or engineering doesnt mean its sounds the best or is the loudest

they would give me a grand prix if i made a 12 foot sub but i know it will sound like ass.

like i said 90%install and 10% product!

you can make anything sound good and ill spend less doing it.

Well, I never actually said that the awards mean the products sound good. I just offered the information for reference as we were talking about the company. Now, if it were so easy to earn GP awards, why doesn't every company win? As far as 90% install and 10% product - I am as familar with the old expression as anyone. I hope you do realize that it has always meant to be an eggageration - one that is meant is to show the importance of install with no regard to product. If it were actually true that 90% of the equation was install, then one would assume you could take a Dual 10" sub and build the most incredible enclosure, fiberglassed like a pro, perfectly spec'd to the T/S and it would sound incredible?!?!?! Think again. Product matters a lot more than 10%. There's a fine balance. I'd say to keep it simple, it's best to install good products properly. That about sum's it up. As far as what's better W7/AA/Solo X; Focal/Quart; Tru/Arc; Zapco/Mac you could debate it all day long and never be right or wrong because it's too subjective. That's why I always try to stick to facts, specs and be fair to whatever products I'm comparing, when I consider each to be of high caliber. So, I happened to think that a W7 is cleaner than an AA and I think a Solo X would be louder than either one. But any of them would be loud, clean and excellent.

[radioactive77]

i totally agree with all of that. all are great products but install still needs to be perfect to get the best of each product, using t/s parameters etc.... but not alot stores and such do that, only mostly people whom compete go to take it that far.

if you going to through a w7 in a .75 cubic box sealed with 2 watts rms it wont maximize that subs potential, and most people dont realize that.

same with the solo x 18" VERY loud sub but requires something like
11 cubic foot box to do some damage and that wont even fit in most vehicles comfortably.

again i totally agree with you, but people on here want the biggest and baddest and dont realize that a lower end sub in a specific box will sound better then a super high end from that same manufacturer in the same size box, so there better off buying something smaller that accomadates there vehicle.