Alright guys I just want to get your opinions. Right now I have two fosgate 12's in the trunk that I just made a custom box for. I am getting the new alpine head unit with the ipod interface box right after christmas. I was also looking at getting new speakers right after that. I'm not going to be putting these on a amp, also on the 6x9's i'm not worried about how low they hang because im about to do the diy trunk shocks and remove the springs. Also I want the door speakers to fit w/o much modification if possible. I'm not too worried about money I want something that sounds awesome. So in your opinion what is the best sounding door speakers and new 6x9's?
thanks for the help guys,
Realitycheck
quite similar to what I just did in a hybrid. four speakers with no amplifier, we used the avic instead though.
we ended up running a koda component set up front and tang band 6.5's in the back. it took SOME doing to get the koda midrange into the door, but it wasnt excessive. its the same modification you will have ot do for basically ANY speaker in the door. its just two minutes more cutting, and using inch thick MDF for a spacer rather than .75 inch mdf.
No matter what you will need to cut some of the door panel and install a spacer if you expect solid mid-fi sound.
Unfortunately, I almost expect the tangbands to be too deep for you (they do in fact make a 6x9 model). fortunately, if you are looking for something that sounds awesome, you might be in luck for the back. using a midbass heavy componnet set, like the adire koda component set, you might eliminate the need for rear speakers. you will have th emidbass support neccesary to match down to the subwoofers form a quality perspective.
so this is what I would recommend: I recommend a koda componet set for up front. you will need to cut away some of the door frame, I like to notch it out and hammer back the tabs to fit the motors structure in there. The spacer will need to be an inch thick, and siliconed in after screwing into the door frame. the koda will bold onto that and the door skin fits right back on. if not, trim the plastic speaker guard till it does, piece of cake.
this extra bit of work you might have to do to get the door speakers to fit will return your time investment in quality of sound; you can take back the time investment for the tweets or the rear speakers.
I would install the tweeters up high. Ideally on the a-pillars if you get surface mount cups. otherwise I would try to cram them into the sail panels. Actually, I would still try to get them as far away from my head as possible in the a-pillars anyways, but wheverver you decide to put those tweets, I would put them up high. in the hybrid, we cut holes into the door panels, and they work pretty well. the depth is awesome on the stage, but there are major phaseing issues that you could avoid by getting those tweets farther away. plus, its just less scary modifying a sail or a-pillar rather than a $150 door panel.
for the rear, I would START by pulling the rear deck off and just removing the rear speakers. nothing new, jsut removing the stock ones and leaving those gaping holes to let all that nice bass into the cabin, resistance free. I think you will be reasonably impressed by the difference it makes.
and, if later, you decide you want midbass support in the back. later, if you decide you want midrange in the back. later, if you decide you want rearfill in the back, you can THEN buy rear speakers, and only then would you have to start worrying about whether the rears will fit, etc.
but for the front? I would go with kodas for deck power, all the way.
Where can I find some of these kodas? I'm kinda lost on some of the things you said. So they wont fit so you cut the panel till they will fit, and im guessing your saying that youre gonna have to make a 1 inch thick mdf ring so they will mount. How do you mount the ring? Second you're saying that with these door speakers I wont have to have any rear speakers anymore?
wait, is the 12 volt the forum with a forum on interior construction, with the lit plexiglass DIY with the guy who had access to a tabletop CNC router?
Well we had a guy that just had a piece of plexi done, he went to a trophy to do it though. It was of a rf logo. I gave him a link to metku.net That the guy did a cnc router of a lady.
you take screws (sheet metal are easiest to poke through) and simply screw the baffle to the door frame. then silicone the edges to get a perfect seal. piece of cake!
the spacer is needed to clear the window. all speakers will need this clearance. well, nearly every.
the cutting of the frame is to accomodate the physically large magnet hanging off the back of the midranges. again, the hole in the door stock is so small you are gonna have to cut anyways no matter what. well, nearly every.
find me a 7th genner with aftermarket door speakers who didnt have to cut the door panel and add a baffle at the same time, and ill show you a 7th gen civic with no rear wave separation from the midrange, a requirement to maximize speaker potential. That is the reason for neccesary hole cutting and baffle producing.
with these door speakers you wont NEED rear speakers. but if you WANT em, you can still have em. im merely suggesting you can get these door speakers first, then pull out the rears and run with nothing minus large gaping holes in the rear deck, compare to stock, and decide if rear speakers are something you want or not.
Rear speakers throw off imaging. Ideally, you want the sound to come from infront of you at about head level.
Think of being at a concert, there are no speakers behind you.
The baffle is the one inch mdf ring. It doesn't affect the sound in anyway. The distance between the window (when rolled down) and the back of the magnet is only 2 1/8th inches. Most after market speakers have magnets a much larger than 2 1/8th. So you have to have the ring in order for the speaker to fit depth wise.
the idea is to keep the rear wave from the front wave. Simplified, every time the speaker moves out, a wave pulses out from it. you hear that. every time it moves back, a wave pulses out towards the door skin away from the speaker. The problem is that this "backwave" is out of phase 180 degrees with the "frontwave".
try this if you ever get the chance. grab a subwoofer out of its box, although any spekaer will work, this will be very ver noticible with a subwoofer, and hook it up to power. not too loud now! youll see the basket moving like crazy, but not hear very much. now, put it face down on an enclosure, or however you want. the idea is to seperate the one wave from the other by containing it into a box. you notice the response gets MUCH louder!
this is why all subwoofers are installed in boxes.
now, speakers operate on the exact same principle. they need a "box", so to speak. this is your door. now, its realistically completley impossible t seperate 100% of the front wave from the back wave in a door speaker. but we try to minimize the effect as much as possible. one way we do this is to make sure if the rear wave DOES interact with the front wave, the sound must travel all the way down the door, through the large gaping hole where the latch is (you may have noticed big styrofoam there) and back to the front. it still cancels out with the speaker, hurting your response, but the effect is much reduced.
many kids here just stick some screws here into the door around the speakers, you could even stick your finger into the door next to the speaker and scratch the back side of the cone if you wanted! this very very easily allows the rear wave to combine with the front, and performance suffers terribly.
this is why its important to seal off the rear of the speaker as much as possible from the front.
craiger explained why the desire for no rear speakers exists. Now, some people like sound coming from behind you. Hell, some people like EXCLUSIVELY sound coming from behind you! if you like sound coming from behind, then youll want rear speakers.
however, audiophiles associate more than tonality with a well built stereo. They also incorporate what we call a "sound stage" into the mix. being able to localize instruments, voices, install speakers in such a way to render them transparent to the image, etc.
I wouldnt worry about this stuff yet, especially if merely tonality is a concern at this time!
what I would focus on fully at this time is merely sound coming from either in front of you or behind you. If you decide you want your rear passengers to have sound, or that you like rear midrange, theres nothing wrong with putting speakers back there! in a way, it makes things easier, since you will never have a "sound stage" and thus dont have to worry about imaging, staging, height, width, etc.
only if you decide your stereo sounds better with no rear speakers would you ever have to even think about thinking about staging.
thats why I reccommend front speakers FIRST, rather than only. youve got rear speakers now, it sounds like X. replace all four with just the kodas, (or whatever anyone else reccommends) and it soundslike Y. whichever you like better from a directional standpoint (rather than a tonality standpoint, the kodas will lay the stocks to waste) will determine whether you have rear speakers and/or a soundstage.
