Off Topic"If you don't like your job, you don't strike. You just go in every day and do it really half-assed. That's the American way."
Welcome to civicforums.com!
Welcome to civicforums.com.
You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to start new topics, reply to conversations, privately message other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join civicforums.com today!
I've been told that Christians do not believe this (I think I heard it on the news). So, do animals have souls? By "animals" I mean everything that's non-human: dogs, cats, worms, snakes, birds, etc.
If they do have souls, what happens when they die? Do they go to Heaven or Hell or something else?
If they do not have souls, what happens when they die?
I know how Buddhism feels about this subject, and I think I almost entirely agree with what it says, but I want to get straight answers about Christianity. I can describe the Buddhist views on this if anyone is interested.
btw, thanks to all the people (Christians and non-Christians) who have helped answer my Christianity questions
To remove this ad, register today for free or log in if already registered!
__________________ The best uncensored weightlifting community online eZine Forum
K&N FIPK II / HP Top Portion Header / Neuspeed Front Upper Strut Bar / RSX 19mm Rear Sway Bar
Generic Rear Upper Strut Bar / 15" Silver Rota Slipstreams (11.8lbs) / 205/60/15 Falken ZE-512's
Sponsored Links
To avoid seeing this ad in our forum please register at CivicForums.com
By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features.
My personal belief is that animals most definitely do not have souls. They were not made in God's image. There is nothing "spirit" about any sort of animal.
When they die, they are just like any other flesh-and-blood thing that dies. Just like a blade of grass, when it dies, it rots away or decomposes or gets eaten, whatever.
The same happens when a human dies... however because humans DO have souls, although the "shell" (body) decomposes just like any other body, the spirit/soul lives on eternally.
So what happens to a dog's consciousness when it dies? It just ceases to function (like pulling the power cord on your computer)?
Would you say that a dog is even conscious? Would you say there is a difference between consciousness and a soul?
Is there a penalty in Christianity for killing animals (non-humans)? Please answer for a) killing animals for food, b) killing animals for survival (like if one attacks you or something), c) killing animls for sick pleasure.
How can you look at a dog and think it doesn't have a soul?
Hey guys, I'm a little shabby at typing tonight, I arrested a 300 pound dude tonight and he stabbed me in the arm.... Now onto the topic...
I don't believe personally (and I'm a Christian) that animals have souls. As has been said already, we were created in God's image, and that is what separates us from animals. Animals are conscious, but they operate on instinct and the drive to survive. Humans behave in ways that are not at all instinctual or survival orientated sometimes.
As far as killing animals, God places us on earth as stewards of His creation. We have the authority and the power to care for, or destroy, animals, plants, etc. We are responsible for these things, and that's why it's so important to use discernment when it comes to killing or even breeding animals. I grew up in Zimbabwe (Africa) and we hunted all the time. the thing is, if we and other people hadn't hunted then the animal populations would have become too immense and they would have destroyed their own habitats and food sources, causing all of them to become extinct. That's no exxageration. Hunting kept the population under control and also provided food for some very hungry people living in poverty. Every part of the animal was used, including the Matumbo. (guts)
By contrast, sensless killing of or cruelty to animals is abusing our God-given responsibility and authority. Hope that answers the question.
Originally posted by bushcat Hey guys, I'm a little shabby at typing tonight, I arrested a 300 pound dude tonight and he stabbed me in the arm.... Now onto the topic...
You need to start a new thread about that!
__________________ The best uncensored weightlifting community online eZine Forum
K&N FIPK II / HP Top Portion Header / Neuspeed Front Upper Strut Bar / RSX 19mm Rear Sway Bar
Generic Rear Upper Strut Bar / 15" Silver Rota Slipstreams (11.8lbs) / 205/60/15 Falken ZE-512's
That's so crazy. My friend just asked me that question today, and I couldn't give him a straight answer.
Thanks for the answers fellas. Very informative.
I can now see that you can have a dog as a friend like a companion, but in no way is it like a human. You can treat it like one, but spiritually, it's just an animal that you adored. I think this is what I'm getting from your info fellas. Thanks again.
Hrm. . I'm gonna have to get back to you on this. . I have done a lot of reasearch on the beleifs of Christianity, but don't recall anything about animals. . I'm going to dig out the books and get back to you.
BTW. . I know the first thread got locked because it ventured soo far off of the original topic. . I know some of us were still debating in the first thread, so I created a new thread so we can continue discussing it. That way we can stay on topic here. . http://www.7thgencivic.com/forums/sh...hreadid=139533
EDIT:: The thread at the link above was locked too. . So don't bother.!!
__________________ - Stay in front, that way you don't have to worry about passing anyone.
I think animals have souls. Alot of people can say they dont and they only rely on their brain. I think when dogs die, they go to Doggy Heaven as well as cats. But I dont believe the whole 9 lives with cats. But I believe they all have souls. What else makes every animal different from another? How come my dachshund chases lasers and hops up onto the top of our couch to sleep all day? (Something cats would do)
Why doesnt any other dog (dachshund) do this?
I think it's because a soul makes them unique even though we see them as simply as an animal.
Yup, I'd have to agree that animals, once they die, they simply cease to exist. No heaven or hell for them. Kinda sad, too. But that's just me.
__________________ DISCLAIMER:
The typed words of CivicRookie shall not and do not reflect the opinions of this website, nor of his own real thoughts, political affiliation, his associates, and/or personal preference as to whether the chicken or the egg came first.
Okay, I'm just reading that web page and posting as I go along so as not to lose my train of thought...
Quote:
Body and soul are not simply two factors existing alongside or in each other, but form an indivisible whole.
I don't understand how that can be true if, when we die, our souls live on as our bodies decompose into nothingness. Yes, they do form a whole, but the soul is not limited to time and other temporal factors. As far as actions and will, it is very evident that dual volitions exist within each human: the soul's will to be united with God, and the body's will to give in to animal instincts and temptations. Hence the struggle of Christianity in its entirety.
Umm, yeah. This is a pretty biased article in the fact that it defends animals more than humans. Also, it states that we have "elevated" men to be higher than God. Not once did I or any other fervent Christians do that. And when the article goes into other religions, it loses focus.
As Christians, our goal is salvation. Worrying about whether or not animals have souls is just a distraction and will not benefit our struggle.
However, I am not dismissing it just yet. I'll consult those who know more about these matters and get back to you.
what about single cell amebas.. they're just as much alive as animals and humans right? I mean, do you have to have a brain to have a soul or do you just have to be alive? This is why I think the soul theory should be defunct, it leads people to misconstrue what a soul is. Can a living cell made up of not much more then a couple hundred atoms, (10^-15) meters in size, how a soul connection to the universe? And what about atoms themselves, they are the building blocks of me, you, and anything you can think of, so they have to be "alive" in order to bond together and work. The only true religion we as humans will ever live to understand is science. I'm not saying become an Atheist, im not one, but look to science my friends, Darwin Day in 2009. Peace out.
Originally posted by zapthycat My personal belief is that animals most definitely do not have souls. They were not made in God's image. There is nothing "spirit" about any sort of animal.
When they die, they are just like any other flesh-and-blood thing that dies. Just like a blade of grass, when it dies, it rots away or decomposes or gets eaten, whatever.
The same happens when a human dies... however because humans DO have souls, although the "shell" (body) decomposes just like any other body, the spirit/soul lives on eternally.
That's my take. Anyone else?
Classic example of the Humans-Are-The-Superior-Species-On-Earth mentality. Why do we have to be superior to all other objects created? We gave ourselves an ego boost back in the day by saying we were created in the image of God. Now, what race was that? Are we talking Pigmies in New Zeland? Maybe the black giants in Central Africa? Oh, the white people in the Scandinavians, right? Who's image is that of God?
Also, a famous philosopher, Xenophanes, once said: "If cows and horses or lions had hands or could draw with their hands and make the things men can make then horses would draw the forms of gods like horses, cows like cows, and they would make their bodies similar in shape to those which each had themselves." He makes perfect sense.
Humans are nothing but another species of animal. Whatever is true of a cat, dog, horse, cow, or whale is true of a human in the eyes of my god. We are all creatures made to entertain him while he was feeling lonely in Heaven and he thinks no more or no less of a human that kills a cow than a lion that kills a human.
More to come later when I can actually sit here and express my thoughts completely.
__________________ I have too much respect for the idea of God to make it responsible for such an absurd world.
-Georges Duhamel
The radical of one century is the conservative of the next. The radical invents the views. When he has worn them out the conservative adopts them.
-Mark Twain
Originally posted by IronFist ^ What's Darwin Day in 2009?
Lots of Europeans this year were advocating the recognition of Charles Darwin as an international holiday set on his birthday February 12th. I saw something on Yahoo! saying they're pushing for 2009 as being the target globalization year of the holiday, though it has been celebrated in certain parts of the world for years. Check out the website for it if you want --> http://www.darwinday.org/
Originally posted by silverdevil Classic example of the Humans-Are-The-Superior-Species-On-Earth mentality. Why do we have to be superior to all other objects created? We gave ourselves an ego boost back in the day by saying we were created in the image of God. Now, what race was that? Are we talking Pigmies in New Zeland? Maybe the black giants in Central Africa? Oh, the white people in the Scandinavians, right? Who's image is that of God?
Also, a famous philosopher, Xenophanes, once said: "If cows and horses or lions had hands or could draw with their hands and make the things men can make then horses would draw the forms of gods like horses, cows like cows, and they would make their bodies similar in shape to those which each had themselves." He makes perfect sense.
Humans are nothing but another species of animal. Whatever is true of a cat, dog, horse, cow, or whale is true of a human in the eyes of my god. We are all creatures made to entertain him while he was feeling lonely in Heaven and he thinks no more or no less of a human that kills a cow than a lion that kills a human.
More to come later when I can actually sit here and express my thoughts completely.
LOL... yeah, I guess IF horses could draw, they would draw gods like horses... that's a pretty big IF though, right? IF I had wings, I would fly.... As far as I am aware, humans are the only creatures that have a sense of consciousness... i.e. think about death, the past, the future, the self as an image, etc... lol... well, I am sure to get flamed for this, but I think a better title for this thread should be "Mighty Mouse vs. Superman... who wins in a fight?" because these comments are getting just silly... "Animals souls reside in their blood, and when they die, so do their souls.." LOL... I mean, does anyone even think about what they are saying in here, or is this some strange form of tourette's syndrome that only occurs when you're typing? That's like saying Superman would win becaus Mighy Mouse isn't real... well, enjoy! This thread definitely gave me a chuckle...
Dolphins are Highly advanced mentaly, To the point that each dolphin has a name with in the pod that it lives. each has its own distinct pattern of squeaks, pops and such that the other dolphins in the pod use to get that particular dolphins attention. almost bordering on a Language. So I would think that they know they exzist and have a sense of Consciouness, In fact they are the only other species that is known to have sex for pleasure (Humans are the only other species)
Explosivo, why is it a big IF? Is it that unfathomable that they do have a sense of consciousness yet we don't know it because we can't hold a conversation with them? It's know that animals know when they are going to be slaughtered so they don't want to walk that single file into the slaughterhouse. Isn't that a sense of consciousness?
Originally posted by silverdevil Classic example of the Humans-Are-The-Superior-Species-On-Earth mentality. Why do we have to be superior to all other objects created? We gave ourselves an ego boost back in the day by saying we were created in the image of God. Now, what race was that? Are we talking Pigmies in New Zeland? Maybe the black giants in Central Africa? Oh, the white people in the Scandinavians, right? Who's image is that of God?
God's image is not limited to a physical attributes. Do you really think God is limited to human nature? Of course He is not. His image is a spirit. In the Bible, God gave Adam dominion over all His creation. We didn't give ourselves an "ego boost," rather, we were appointed by God to oversee His creation. What race was that? The Human race.
Quote:
Originally posted by silverdevil Also, a famous philosopher, Xenophanes, once said: "If cows and horses or lions had hands or could draw with their hands and make the things men can make then horses would draw the forms of gods like horses, cows like cows, and they would make their bodies similar in shape to those which each had themselves." He makes perfect sense.
Just like if walls could talk....
Quote:
Originally posted by silverdevil Humans are nothing but another species of animal. Whatever is true of a cat, dog, horse, cow, or whale is true of a human in the eyes of my god. We are all creatures made to entertain him while he was feeling lonely in Heaven and he thinks no more or no less of a human that kills a cow than a lion that kills a human.
If He thought no more of a human than a cat or dog, then why did He send His only begotten Son to be tortured, humiliated, and sacraficed for our sakes? He didn't do it for animals, He did it for us.
Last edited by ThsUserNmIsDumb; 02-13-2004 at 07:09 PM.
Originally posted by ThsUserNmIsDumb God's image is not limited to a physical attributes. Do you really think God is limited to human nature? Of course He is not. His image is a spirit. In the Bible, God gave Adam dominion over all His creation. We didn't give ourselves an "ego boost," rather, we were appointed by God to oversee His creation. What race was that? The Human race.
And you get this info from where? A work of fiction so many people like to take literally, maybe? I don't believe in the Bible and people who do should come see me because I have a bridge for sale along with some ocean-front property in Arizona.
Quote:
Originally posted by ThsUserNmIsDumb
If He thought no more of a human than a cat or dog, then why did He send His only begotten Son to be tortured, humiliated, and sacraficed for our sakes? He didn't do it for animals, He did it for us.
Really? Tell that to the Muslims or the Jews. I doubt they think God sent his only begotten son to be killed by humans. So, again, your views can't be proven, they are, simply, your opinion or belief. The day anything you said can be proved then I'll buy it; otherwise, you are free to voice your stories but I will continue to believe they are just that: myths!
__________________ I have too much respect for the idea of God to make it responsible for such an absurd world.
-Georges Duhamel
The radical of one century is the conservative of the next. The radical invents the views. When he has worn them out the conservative adopts them.
-Mark Twain
Originally posted by silverdevil And you get this info from where? A work of fiction so many people like to take literally, maybe? I don't believe in the Bible and people who do should come see me because I have a bridge for sale along with some ocean-front property in Arizona.
And why do you not believe in the Bible? What are your exact reasons? Don't say, "it's all myth"-- explain how it is "all myth".
Quote:
Originally posted by silverdevil Really? Tell that to the Muslims or the Jews. I doubt they think God sent his only begotten son to be killed by humans. So, again, your views can't be proven, they are, simply, your opinion or belief. The day anything you said can be proved then I'll buy it; otherwise, you are free to voice your stories but I will continue to believe they are just that: myths!
My views, in fact, can be proven. If you would like to further search the legitimacy of Jesus Christ, read The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel. It's pretty long, though, and I'm still reading it myself.
Originally posted by ThsUserNmIsDumb If He thought no more of a human than a cat or dog, then why did He send His only begotten Son to be tortured, humiliated, and sacraficed for our sakes? He didn't do it for animals, He did it for us.
how do we know that as we here as humans today, Jesus is not on this Earth in a form other than human saving that species? you don't, you sir are what I call a closed mind Christian and think that we are better than everything. I belive that we think we are greater than all things because we know not what has happended and what God has done with them.
When was the last time anyone talked to a Cat and said so have you heard about Jesus? Never. If that cat could understand what we were saying maybe he would reply with, yes he was sent to save the Cats. But he doesn't know that we as humans Jesus was also sent to save us.
Jesus was sent to save everything. Animals have souls. I'm a Christian.
Originally posted by littlePman how do we know that as we here as humans today, Jesus is not on this Earth in a form other than human saving that species? you don't, you sir are what I call a closed mind Christian and think that we are better than everything. I belive that we think we are greater than all things because we know not what has happended and what God has done with them.
When was the last time anyone talked to a Cat and said so have you heard about Jesus? Never. If that cat could understand what we were saying maybe he would reply with, yes he was sent to save the Cats. But he doesn't know that we as humans Jesus was also sent to save us.
Jesus was sent to save everything. Animals have souls. I'm a Christian.
The reason Jesus did not come to save animals is because what is He saving them from? Do animals sin? And by what law are animals judged? If animals had a soul that can be tried in order to go to heaven, then they would have to be able to sin, to have a choice between good and evil. If this choice does not exist, then salvation would not be needed.
Originally posted by littlePman how do we know that as we here as humans today, Jesus is not on this Earth in a form other than human saving that species? you don't, you sir are what I call a closed mind Christian and think that we are better than everything.
The Bible states that Jesus will come twice: the first has already passed, and the second will the end of the days, hence the title, "The Second Coming." As far as species, Jesus Christ is God and human. His humanity parted not from His divinity for a single moment; therefore, He is always human and always God, not any other species.
Originally posted by ThsUserNmIsDumb And why do you not believe in the Bible? What are your exact reasons? Don't say, "it's all myth"-- explain how it is "all myth".
From Merriam-Webster:
Main Entry: myth
Pronunciation: 'mith
Function: noun
Etymology: Greek mythos
1 a : a usually traditional story of ostensibly historical events that serves to unfold part of the world view of a people or explain a practice, belief, or natural phenomenon b : PARABLE, ALLEGORY
2 a : a popular belief or tradition that has grown up around something or someone; especially : one embodying the ideals and institutions of a society or segment of society <seduced by the American myth of individualism -- Orde Coombs> b : an unfounded or false notion
The word comes from the Greek mythos, meaning story. The Bible is nothing but a collection of stories that were told by someone to someone else and, eventually, some guy came around who knew how to write and took some notes. They are meant as parables, not to be taken literally. I'm not denying the existence of a human who went by the name Jesus; I am, however, saying that just because your Bible says he's the son of God means nothing to the rest of the world who doens't put any stock in that book.
Why don't I believe in the babble, er, Bible: because when stories are passed from generation to generation the facts tend to be distorted and changed to fit the times or just because people forget one thing here or there, or because people feel the need to embelish. Either way, it's not as it happened. Also, it's a proven fact that in the Middle Ages, the Catholic Church undertook the censoring of the Bible, meaning what you are reading today isn't what was meant to be in there but what the powers that where at the time thought you should know. How can I trust an edited version of a book to be loyal to what it originally was? Simple, I can't!
Quote:
Originally posted by ThsUserNmIsDumb My views, in fact, can be proven. If you would like to further search the legitimacy of Jesus Christ, read The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel. It's pretty long, though, and I'm still reading it myself.
Oh, another book for me to read? One written by another (flawed) human? Yeah, that proves it! I want facts that I can see, touch, smell, or taste! If you say they can be proven then I'm sitting here waiting to see the proof nobody else has been able to come up with but you happen to have in your side pocket.
Quote:
Originally posted by littlePman how do we know that as we here as humans today, Jesus is not on this Earth in a form other than human saving that species? you don't, you sir are what I call a closed mind Christian and think that we are better than everything. I belive that we think we are greater than all things because we know not what has happended and what God has done with them.
When was the last time anyone talked to a Cat and said so have you heard about Jesus? Never. If that cat could understand what we were saying maybe he would reply with, yes he was sent to save the Cats. But he doesn't know that we as humans Jesus was also sent to save us.
Jesus was sent to save everything. Animals have souls. I'm a Christian.
Quote:
Originally posted by ThsUserNmIsDumb The reason Jesus did not come to save animals is because what is He saving them from? Do animals sin? And by what law are animals judged? If animals had a soul that can be tried in order to go to heaven, then they would have to be able to sin, to have a choice between good and evil. If this choice does not exist, then salvation would not be needed.
How do you know that we are not mere puppets and that the real God is there to judge dogs because he is a dog and we think we're the center of the Universe, yet we're not? Nobody can say anything about what laws we are judged by, either. It's all a BELIEF and nothing else. You believe you know what you will be judged by; assuming we actually do have a judgement day. You believe it to be true, and that's great. Others do not, and that is their prerogative.
I'm tired of people taking their beliefs as facts. See, the facts we don't agree with we call beliefs and, conversely, the beliefs we be do agree with we call facts. It's nothing but human nature to do so. However, when you learn the difference and accept, as Socrates once said, that we do not know anything, then you will be on your way to learning. You are a closed-minded Christian who believes you worship the right God and has picked the right religion. We can't all be right, but we can certainly all be wrong!
As for the Bible stating that Jesus will come twice and he has come once, yada, yada...Whatever! It also says that all the Jews must die for the second coming of the Messiah to come to pass. That's going to be a bit hard since there are Jews all over the world.
__________________ I have too much respect for the idea of God to make it responsible for such an absurd world.
-Georges Duhamel
The radical of one century is the conservative of the next. The radical invents the views. When he has worn them out the conservative adopts them.
-Mark Twain
Originally posted by ThsUserNmIsDumb The reason Jesus did not come to save animals is because what is He saving them from? Do animals sin? And by what law are animals judged? If animals had a soul that can be tried in order to go to heaven, then they would have to be able to sin, to have a choice between good and evil. If this choice does not exist, then salvation would not be needed.
According to Buddhism, souls are reborn as animals to kind of burn up some bad karma (I think). An animal, by nature, is too concerned with its own survival to worry about what is "right" or "wrong" or a "sin." Therefore, as far as I know, animals can't really accumulate good karma because they're not thinking about each decision in a "right" or "wrong" context.
But an animal is still a living being, and as such, deserves the same rights as any other living being. That bug on your wall that you kill without a second thought could be going back home to tend to its eggs or something. Mothering instincts are universal. How would you like it if you were just walking along minding your own business and out of nowhere a giant hand came and smashed you? I have no right to take the life of any other being (unless my life in in danger or something) because its goal in life is the same as yours; to survive. So when I see a bug on my wall or something I catch it and take it outside and set it free. That way it's free to do whatever it wants to do, and possibly use up some of it's bad karma. And you haven't gotten any bad karma for killing another being without reason.
That bug you step on could have been your mother in a past life.
You never know.
__________________ The best uncensored weightlifting community online eZine Forum
K&N FIPK II / HP Top Portion Header / Neuspeed Front Upper Strut Bar / RSX 19mm Rear Sway Bar
Generic Rear Upper Strut Bar / 15" Silver Rota Slipstreams (11.8lbs) / 205/60/15 Falken ZE-512's
Some of you guys have some serious issues.... or stashes of crack. I can't believe the garbage some of you are spitting out, seriousely. You're not talking about some guy up there, you're talking about my Heavenly Father. There will never be any absolute proof, because it is by faith that we believe, and it is by faith that we are saved. With proof there is no faith, and so no salvation. You guys go ahead and choose your own self serving aternatives, as for me, I will live my life for God. the difference between Christianity and all other religions is the element of Grace. NO OTHER religion contains the principle of grace.
And that whole thing about some super cat coming to die for other cats.... geez man, I thought you'd been kicked out of the gene pool a long time ago.
(Something cats would do)
As far as I am aware, humans are the only creatures that have a sense of consciousness... i.e. think about death, the past, the future, the self as an image, etc... lol... well, I am sure to get flamed for this, but I think a better title for this thread should be "Mighty Mouse vs. Superman... who wins in a fight?" because these comments are getting just silly... "Animals souls reside in their blood, and when they die, so do their souls.." LOL... I mean, does anyone even think about what they are saying in here, or is this some strange form of tourette's syndrome that only occurs when you're typing? That's like saying Superman would win becaus Mighy Mouse isn't real... well, enjoy! This thread definitely gave me a chuckle... 
