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well after 3 days of hard work i have my clutch installed arp wheel studs in and finnaly today crower stage 2 cam and spring kit in. I invite anyone with a stage 2 cam installed to post thier experiences (boosted or otherwise) here.
Idle is rough I would call it more than "slighlty lopey at idle" I believe there will be some smoothing out with AEM ems but with just vafc2 I would call it more than lopey. I have to say it does sound cool. Hot rod ish.
My cam gear is set to 2 degrees advance...i just left it as i had it before. I may experiement with it in the near future. I will post results here. Sorry but there is no before dyno. you will have to look at the last dyno i had, many mods back. and take my wod that I was putting around 130 ish whp to the ground. 60 bux is 60 bux. I will post the final dyno when it happens. Untuned it barks third gear on command < may have to do with the clutch I just put in. It pulls slightly harder than before. dare I say it.... I felt vtec kick in when at partial throttle. It is obvious to me that there is alot of tuning to be done. It is noticable louder than before. I will street tune my AF ratio as much as I can with my wiideband. At partial throttle the af ratio is all over the place. < there is not much you can do about this with just vafc2. The stock ecu adjusts quite a bit. I am starting to look at EMS as my next mod. When I started my obsession with making na d17 hp I never thought it would go this far. My k swap looks so far away now. I keep thinking "maybe I will be satisfied with just this" ...NOT. Stay tuned It has just been a few hours since the install and I have only driven it a couple times. More to come.
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__________________ 133.48 whp 117.57 tq all motor untuned dynojet
188.87 whp 187.99 tq 75 shot n20 untuned dynojet
147.5 hhp 130.5 htq all mtr tuned church's dynapack
my old d17 set up.
now swapped k20a2 4.7fd lsd kpro
Last edited by djmota; 08-04-2005 at 06:11 PM.
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thats weird.... i know the ems or e-manage is so much better but my neighbor has a b16 swap with 75 shot, skunk2 stg2 cams, i/h/e etc tuned with vafc and my friend with a DA teg has a b20 bottom and a ls head with crower stage 3 cams and he tunes it with the safc and there air/fuel is pretty good but u can hear the cams especially at idle. I am pretty sure ur air/fuel will be much better when tuned at a dyno. I also see quite a few people use the vafc or safc with dsm injectors tuned on 8 psi turbo setups so u should be fine, but if u got the coin for the ems deff do it. That would be sic to see a d17 with full pistons, rods, ems, cam, and with a lil bit of nitrous get in the high 200 hp range. Good luck.
yup sprimgs and retainers are in there. I would not raise the redline untill I have ARP rod bolts... at the least, installed. A tuned dyno will tell where the power is at. Time to call some shops and get a price on tuning. A ride ...sure when its running as good as it can. I have yet to try spray thru it. I want to know where my timing is at.
__________________ 133.48 whp 117.57 tq all motor untuned dynojet
188.87 whp 187.99 tq 75 shot n20 untuned dynojet
147.5 hhp 130.5 htq all mtr tuned church's dynapack
my old d17 set up.
now swapped k20a2 4.7fd lsd kpro
I don't think that the stage 2 cam is for everybody. There is definatly a sacrafice in drivability. The idle is rough and it actually cuts off once in a while. You can't just stomp on the gas and go. you have to feather it up to 2k and then its cool. I personally think that vafc2 and a cam gear is not going to cut it. I'll haVe to get it tuned by a pro to find out for sure. I think that e manage with the ignition harness would be minimal to get this cam to idle better and probably perform better. < this is only a guess since no one has tried it yet. I'll monkey around with it for a week or two then take it somewhere.
__________________ 133.48 whp 117.57 tq all motor untuned dynojet
188.87 whp 187.99 tq 75 shot n20 untuned dynojet
147.5 hhp 130.5 htq all mtr tuned church's dynapack
my old d17 set up.
now swapped k20a2 4.7fd lsd kpro
Like I said in another thread I think the only right way to use this cam is with EMS. I am going to have one installed and tuned hopefully by Aug18th. I have the Stage 2 with Vafc also and it just ain't right. The ECU makes idle jump around and once it settles at 800 (stock idle ) it is hella rough and does feel like cutting off... DJmota I had to put my VAFC @ -29 at 1000 to get it to idle withough cutting off...was flooding it at first. I agree with DJmota tho it ain't for everyone. If you want the "slight lope at idle" them get the EMS at $1500ish ...that is the ONLY way it will run right.
I don't think that the stage 2 cam is for everybody. There is definatly a sacrafice in drivability. The idle is rough and it actually cuts off once in a while. You can't just stomp on the gas and go. you have to feather it up to 2k and then its cool. I personally think that vafc2 and a cam gear is not going to cut it. I'll habe to get it tuned by a pro to find out for sure. I think that e manage with the ignition harness would be minimal to get this cam to idle better and probably perform better. < this is only a guess since no one has tried it yet. I'll monkey around with it for a week or two then take it somewhere.
i think once you get it tuned up it wont stall on you or anything. just my thought.
oK small update. Fuel at WOT is close to where I want it, not exactly but close. The vafc2 will not give me any more fuel. I believe the stock fuel map is maxed out. Idle is still rough although it does not die on me anymore. I had fuel setting on the plus side at idle. I think this retarded the timing and made it hard for the ecu to keep it idling. I set it to zero and it helped a tiny bit. It pulls nicely. Playing with the cam gear is next. I am hoping it helps the idle more and helps the 1000-2500 rpm range more hospitable. I think I see AEM EMS in my future. Once my clutch is broken in I will try the spray.
__________________ 133.48 whp 117.57 tq all motor untuned dynojet
188.87 whp 187.99 tq 75 shot n20 untuned dynojet
147.5 hhp 130.5 htq all mtr tuned church's dynapack
my old d17 set up.
now swapped k20a2 4.7fd lsd kpro
sorry but I don't have the means to gte a clip or a vid. I use the computer and camera at work. Maybe i'll try to show up to a local meet and another member could hook it up.
__________________ 133.48 whp 117.57 tq all motor untuned dynojet
188.87 whp 187.99 tq 75 shot n20 untuned dynojet
147.5 hhp 130.5 htq all mtr tuned church's dynapack
my old d17 set up.
now swapped k20a2 4.7fd lsd kpro
I don't think that the stage 2 cam is for everybody. There is definatly a sacrafice in drivability. The idle is rough and it actually cuts off once in a while. You can't just stomp on the gas and go. you have to feather it up to 2k and then its cool.
I ran crower 403's in my b18a, ( stage 3) and they were awesome, took some playing around to get them to not die at idle, and yes it was a little bit of a challenge under 2k, but i never had to feather the clutch to get it to get going.
I love the lumpyness to.
I was at the track and a mustang guy with super lumpy cams, looked over at my car sputtering away( i had the cam gears adjusted so it wouldnt idle for my than 20 seconds by itself) and said" its funny cause your car sounds worse than mine, it puts a huge smile on ur face when u sound like a harly. Have fun tuning, u can probably squeeze 4-5 more hp outa the cams with SUPEr agressive tuning.
__________________ *The only thing worse than a street racer, is someone who brags about street racing*
2001 Civic LX
H&R Sport Spring / Intermilano RG6 Wheels / CTR Style Headlights
Altezza Grill / Apexi N1 Royal Magenta Exhaust / Custom 2 1/4" piping
AEM SRI / Revo SS / SKunk2 Shift Knob / Sparco Speed / OMP 3 point harness / Hawk HPS Pads / Powerslot Rotors / SS Lines
My Boost Parts collection:
TSI Manifold, RSX Injectors, Garret T25
I Played with the cam gear this weekend. tried advancing it 2 more degrees +4 idle felt the same if not a little worse performance and AFR unchanged also gave me a CEL after a day or 2. gave it a shot at 2 degrees retard and to my surprise the AFR went richer than it was in the past. I believe that I was wrong previously about being axed out. I now think that with the adv settings I had the intake valve closing too soon and not letting in the full air/fuel charge get in the cylinder. It "feels" better when I am on it but that could be just my head. It does bark third better now Idle is the same and it gave me another cel this morning. I am going to try it at zero to see what happens there next. I know I need a dyno to really tell me whats going on but I am just experiementing and learnig at the same time. I am going to try and make it this tuesday to the local 714 meet. and maybe even to the one in cerritos this weekend. It been a while since I showed up to an event. IMO I still need EMS.
__________________ 133.48 whp 117.57 tq all motor untuned dynojet
188.87 whp 187.99 tq 75 shot n20 untuned dynojet
147.5 hhp 130.5 htq all mtr tuned church's dynapack
my old d17 set up.
now swapped k20a2 4.7fd lsd kpro
^^so did you buy the ems already? Is it the new ems that allows a/c, or the swap box? Wish I would've waited for the new one, but I dont even know if its out yet
The new one is not out yet. Supposedly it will be the next ems realeased but who knows when that will happen. When it does I plan on picking it up. Small update. I dorve my car to las vegas from LA And got a cel that does not go away with resseting the ecu. Now my idle stays at 1500rpm. Also something wierd when I let off the gas to decelerate the ecu does not cut off fuel like it did before. I think I am in a sort of limp mode ignition map. It still revs all the way up but just not quite as fats as before. I think Its time to pick up an obd2 scanner.
__________________ 133.48 whp 117.57 tq all motor untuned dynojet
188.87 whp 187.99 tq 75 shot n20 untuned dynojet
147.5 hhp 130.5 htq all mtr tuned church's dynapack
my old d17 set up.
now swapped k20a2 4.7fd lsd kpro
scanned the cel it has nothing to do with the cam. low tps voltage. turned out to be a broken wire where I tapped for my n20 It did not run too bad with no tps.
__________________ 133.48 whp 117.57 tq all motor untuned dynojet
188.87 whp 187.99 tq 75 shot n20 untuned dynojet
147.5 hhp 130.5 htq all mtr tuned church's dynapack
my old d17 set up.
now swapped k20a2 4.7fd lsd kpro
supposed to be the 30-1030 which is supposed to fix the AC problem...that is what I was told at least...guess we will find out. think it was the 30-1070 that you had to rewire the ac.
I had to take an unexpected trip to new mexico this weekend in the vic. 800 miles one way. No problems whatsoever. for those wondering about gas milage. I got 35.7 miles to the gallon hwy doin about 85 all the way. I was pretty impressed that it still get good milage.
__________________ 133.48 whp 117.57 tq all motor untuned dynojet
188.87 whp 187.99 tq 75 shot n20 untuned dynojet
147.5 hhp 130.5 htq all mtr tuned church's dynapack
my old d17 set up.
now swapped k20a2 4.7fd lsd kpro
It is obvious to me that there is alot of tuning to be done. It is noticable louder than before. I will street tune my AF ratio as much as I can with my wiideband. At partial throttle the af ratio is all over the place. < there is not much you can do about this with just vafc2. The stock ecu adjusts quite a bit. I am starting to look at EMS as my next mod. When I started my obsession with making na d17 hp I never thought it would go this far. My k swap looks so far away now. I keep thinking "maybe I will be satisfied with just this" ...NOT. Stay tuned It has just been a few hours since the install and I have only driven it a couple times. More to come. 
gimme a ride ;P
, it puts a huge smile on ur face when u sound like a harly. Have fun tuning, u can probably squeeze 4-5 more hp outa the cams with SUPEr agressive tuning. 
I am going to try it at zero to see what happens there next. I know I need a dyno to really tell me whats going on but I am just experiementing and learnig at the same time. I am going to try and make it this tuesday to the local 714 meet. and maybe even to the one in cerritos this weekend. It been a while since I showed up to an event. IMO I still need EMS. 
