jordan1794

Hello all, just wanted to put a thread up letting you guys know I just did the big 3 upgrade in my 2014 civic.

I'm still waiting on the negative battery terminal to fit the 0 gauge wire to finish it up, so I haven't taken pictures yet, but I should have it *hopefully* by 5pm.

Once I get pictures I'll post some tips and general guides.

It's a straightforward process, but there are a few little things you can do to make it easier/make it look better.

So far I'm just on the edge of needing it(one alpine MRX-110 running at 1100-1200 watts RMS*, pushing one 10" type R.)
But I plan on adding another amp later for the door/deck speakers and possibly even another MRX and Type R.
*Amp is rated for 1100, but test slip showed 1176

I'll have to wait until tonight to find out if it completely fixes my light dimming problem


Ok so I'm not getting the negative terminal today, so I'll go ahead and post the pictures now in a reply.

jordan1794

IMAGES AHOY!

So for starters whenever you work with your cars electrical ALWAYS disconnect the negative battery terminal.

I failed to do so when i was checking which socket i needed to unscrew the alternator bolt, and almost welded my socket to the engine.
Sparks flew, it was quite terrifying...

Anyways, for starters there are 3 wires to be upgraded.

I chose to leave the stock wire on, in addition to the new wires for added security, in case I did something wrong, the stock wires are there to keep the car running.

The first runs from the alternator to the battery, for the alternator to charge the battery(duh)

On the 2014 there is a bracket in the way, so any ring you use must have a diameter of 3/4in or smaller, and the neck of the ring, where it attaches to the wire must not be larger than 1/2 inch.
This is troublesome for 0 gauge wire, so for this part I ran two separate 4 gauge wires.



I was actually able to fit the two 4 gauge wires under the cover on the engine.


Run the wires to the battery and connect them to the positive.


Here you can see 7 different wires attached to my positive terminal.
The two white are the stock alternator wire, and the positive going to the rest of the car.
The two blue are the 4 gauge wire I added coming from the alternator.
The two red are connected to switched, which in the future will allow me to turn my amps on and off when wanted(Once i hook up RCA cables)
The giant grey cable runs the subwoofer amp.


Next wire runs from the engine block to the chassis.
This one is a pain because the AC hose gets in the way,the bolts are tight so don't be surprised when the bolt finally turns and you slam your hand into something.


The last wire runs from the negative of the battery, to the chassis. Unfortunately I don't have the new negative terminal, so this is unfinished but I will update when i get the terminal.
I went ahead and ran the wire, it's hard to see because it is wrapped in electrical tape.
The connection point is in front of the battery



The rest of my set-up i will have in another reply.

jordan1794

So here is the set-up inside the car.

Where the wires come through the firewall(Was a huge pain to get the 0 gauge around the rubber)


The two switches to tun amps on/off.
(eventually, currently server no purpose)


I went for a completely clean look(and built my box myself)


Amp is hidden where the spare tire would be.
The wooden block holds up the platform(just spare wood I had left over after building the box)


Ground wire fits perfectly using a bolt i had laying around, and the screw for the spare tire


It's held down with cargo straps, so it doesn't go anywhere if I take a turn


Wires are hidden



Test slip for amp:

jordan1794

Update: Got my negative terminal today.
Problem, sort of.

The original battery connecter for the negative terminal has a sensor/circuit board BUILT IN. So now I have to drive around with an alert saying to check the charging system.

Anyone know if I can buy an aftermarket sensor that would satisfy the honda computer that I can hook up to the negative terminal?

I know on other vehicles the car controls the alternator using the information provided by the sensor, are civics the same, or does it use other information from sensors elsewhere?

ezone

The warning message should have answered this question for you already.

The battery neg cable runs right to the body. Connect your grounds there too?

Stock 99

When I wire car amps I always fuse the + wire at the battery...your car...your choice though.

http://cartech.about.com/od/Car-Audi...r-Amp-Fuse.htm

I'd also give some electrical thought to how those switches are wired. Specifically wire gauge vs amperage vs load and where fuses and relays should/could be added.

ezone

A little is good, more is better, and way too F'n much is just right!


And the amp only uses a 20A fuse?

jordan1794

I agree I should add fuses to the wires, laziness on my part.
Currently the switches aren't hooked to anything, and never get switched on.

I guess to be safe I could just un-hook them from the battery until I fuse them/ have a purpose for them.

Got everything tested, alternator still charges the battery properly.

And the switches are just for the remote turn on for amps(and to run the LED in the switch), the wire I'm using is actually larger than what is needed.

Amplifier uses a single 100 amp fuse.

Also, worth noting, for my specific vehicle, and assumingly for anyone else with the same car, 1,100 watts is probably close to max of what you should push to be safe.(with the stock alternator)

With AC blasting, high beams on, and constant bass song playing at high volume the battery voltage was dropping slightly faster than the alternator could restore it(by slightly, I mean I'd have to do all those things, at idle, for about half an hour straight, and immediately turn the car off, within 2-3 seconds of the music stopping the battery is back at the proper voltage.)

jordan1794

So found out today my horn wasn't working.
Turns out the circuit that the battery sensor is attached to is the same as the horn, because a fuse was blown in the engine fuse box.
Easy enough to fix, guess I must have shorted the wires by accident at some point when i was working.

jordan1794

Anyone know what the stock alternator output is on this years model?

Hooked up an ammeter and measured the power leaving the alternator.

At idle it put out 28 amps.
When the amplifier was going as loud as it could without clipping the alternator would *only* put out 50 amps, despite the voltage on the battery slowly dropping.

Hooking up to the amplifier wire showed the amplifier pulling between 25-30 amps.


*I say only, I know 50 amps is quite a bit of power, but googling other cars I found that most of them have at least a 75 amp alternator.

Was using a fluke clip-on ammeter, new out of the box.

Amplifier is rated for 1100 watts RMS(test slip says 1176 at 14.4 volts)
Assuming the amplifier receives 14 volts, it should be able to pull almost 80 amps(and over 90 at 12 volts) But it already clips, even though it's only getting 1/3rd of that.

I'm not too worried about it at the moment, I'm just concerned because I did want to add another amp to run some aftermarket speakers eventually, and if I'm already maxing what the alternator can push obviously a second amplifier won't be good.

I really just want to learn how all this works, I have some remedial electrical knowledge, but, at least to me, it seems like the alternator is holding my amplifier back from it's full potential and that the alternator may only be able to put out 50 amps.

all of this is at idle, perhaps the alternator can put out 75 amps(or more) when the RPM's are higher, and the car is in motion? regardless I guess that would't solve much, considering if I based my amplifiers on that I'd risk shutting down my car whenever I hit a stop sign lol.

Maybe the stock stereo clips at 25 when listening to a USB(even though it goes to 40?)
So many questions I know, I appreciate any time anyone takes to answer any of them.

ezone

found this in serv info:
The PCM can choose charging voltage anywhere between 12.5 and 14.5 volts in 0.1v increments, depending on operating conditions.


No specs to be found though?
Parts catalog says it's a Mitsubishi AHGA81, and google says it's 95 amp

FYI most alternators cannot put out max amps at low RPM, load testing is generally done at 2000 RPM or higher.



Give this thread a read, maybe there's some ideas?: http://www.caraudio.com/forums/wirin...vic-print.html

ezone

If I can remember at work, I'll see if I can put a real load tester on one of the newer Civics just for giggles.

Stock 99

I guess your best 3 options would be either increase your battery capacity, add giant capacitors to the sub amp or build a lower amperage stereo system.

Really if you insist on adding another amp to what you already have your looking at a very complicated and expensive stereo system.

jordan1794

An interesting read on that other forum, thanks e-zone.

The second amp would be much, much smaller, just for the inside speakers.
Somewhere around 200-300 watts RMS.

I honestly think it's gonna be easier to get a higher output alternator, but I don't think any have really been made for the 2014 yet.

Anyone know if the high output alts make the car's computer happy or not? I really am already tired of the error message I have from taking out the sensor.

I'm going to put that sensor back on when I get the chance, from what I read that might help the charging a little, and get rid of my error message.

ezone

Use a separate alternator and battery, wired as a standalone system, dedicated to the stereo stuff only?

There should be space where the old PS pump used to reside...

jordan1794

Could do that, run another battery in the trunk to to ensure, worst case scenario, the car will run fine.

But how would I mount that to the engine? Sounds like I need to dig out some phone numbers for some of my high school friends that went into fabrication lol.

ezone

Hey man, I just tossed out an idea. You are on your own now.




I believe there are still a pair of mounting ears on the engine from the previous steering pump, they now hold a belt idler pulley and bracket.
But I don't have one here to look at right now.

jordan1794

Forever and a day late, but here are some updated pictures with a cleaner job, and the new negative terminal:

ezone

Where'd the battery current monitor go? Warning messages on now?

jordan1794

Yeah, didn't want to go through the hassle of trying to pry the bolt up enough to get a ring around it and everything.

Says "Check charging system" every time I start the car.

I checked before hand to ensure the alternator would still behave adequately without it, and it does.

From what I read elsewhere the primary function is that it sees the amperage being pulled and gives the alternator a heads up so it can kick on before the voltage stops dropping.

But when I'm pulling all of what the alternator can make it hasn't made a difference for me.

(Tested it with a meter before and after; voltage behaves the same way with and without the sensor)



Of course, I did TRY to tinker with it, and ended up cracking it...got very upset when I saw that damn little thing is like 80$
But I guess it is a very specialized sensor, most likely built only for honda by one company.(I think it said bosch?)

jordan1794

Surprisingly enough when I took it to my dealership for an oil change they didn't say anything.

Bet some guy took it in and was like
"Hey this has a warning light, I should check it out"

*opens hood*

"Yeah, i think the owner probably already knows why he has the light on"