jordan1794

I currently have 2 Kenwood KFCW3013's 12" subwoofers installed in my 2006 Lx sedan. They are running off of a small cheap amp but this friday I plan to buy a Kenwood KAC9105D amp. The subwoofers are 400 RMS each, 1,200 Max and the amplifier I plan to get is 900 RMS 1,800 max.

My questions are:
1. Do I need to upgrade my electrical system?(I am pretty sure I do)
2. What do I need to upgrade? (I've heard of the big three; Alternator, ground wire, battery)
3. How much should I expect to spend upgrading my electrical system?

2009civic

You shouldn't have to upgrade your electrical. Just make sure you do not use any bass boosts and keep the bass on your head unit at zero and set your gains accordingly. No matter how good you electrical can be, you can still fry your equipment. You want to try your best to give your amp and subs a clean signal. I suggest going with a different amp but that kenwood will suffice. To set your gains properly, you take the final ohm load of your subs multiplied by the power you would want to give it and then sqaure root that number.

For example, let's say your kenwood subs are D4 so there final ohm load wired to the amp would be 1 ohm. And you wanted to give the subs a total of 800 watts. square root of 800 is about 29. Now take a DMM and touch it to the negative and positive terminal in your amp. Play a 50 hz tone at your max listening level and adjust the gain until you see 29 on the DMM.

GolNat

iTrader: (7)

That amp has too much power. You want your amp to match your sub RMS. Max power means nothing, RMS is the most important number. You also want the impedance of the subs to match the impedance of the amp. If you have a 4 ohm sub then you need a 4 ohm amp or you need to wire the subs so that they match your amp impedance. As for upgrading your electrical you shouldn't. I wouldn't buy anything until after you hook everything up and see if your alternator can keep up. The battery only comes into play when the car is off. If your going to be running your system with the car off then you should upgrade your battery.

jordan1794

@2009civic Thanks, I know the Subs are a 4 ohm load each and my dad used to do comps back in his younger years so me and him should be able to hook it up to the right resistance. I want to run them at 2 ohm, I've read that the amp will last at 1 ohm, but some have cutting out problems(possibly because of defects in certain production runs)
Place I'm buying from has a 5 year warranty, free parts/labor and lemon rule so I should be safe buying it from them.

@GolNat Did you read carefully?
"I currently have 2 Kenwood KFCW3013's 12" subwoofers" "subwoofers are 400 RMS each" "the amplifier I plan to get is 900 RMS"

The amp is almost a perfect match in the RMS, only off by 100 watts...and I don't plan to push the subs, I don't care about bass I care about sound quality, I don't crank my subs to show off to people I tune them so they sound right.

I think you missed the line where I said I have TWO sub woofers, not one.

If either of you can explain to me simply how I should wire the subs I'd be greatly appreciative. The Sub woofers are DVC with a total impedance of 4 ohms each, the amp is 500W RMS x 1 @ 4 Ohms,900W RMS x 1 @ 2 Ohms so I want to wire it for an impedance of 2 ohms. The woofers are in a sealed box and each have external hook-ups(So I have access to the positive/negative of each speaker).

GolNat

iTrader: (7)

Sorry, forgot you had 2 subs... If you hook the coils in parallel that takes the sub down to 2 ohms. Then wire the 2 subs in parallel and you will get 1 ohm. If you want to get it to 2 ohms (which is what you said) then you will need another channel.

jordan1794

Amp has outputs for 2 speakers;

This should make it possible to wire the whole thing to 2 ohm, shouldn't it?
(I am still learning about this stuff, my knowledge is limited)
EDIT: Not buying from that site, it just had the best image.

GolNat

iTrader: (7)

Correct. Here is a nice picture of it.

http://crutchfield.custhelp.com/rnt/...Ch_2-4ODVC.jpg

2009civic

If the subs are both dual 4, you cannot wire them to a 2 ohm load. They can only be wired down to 1 ohm or 4 ohms. If they were both dual 2 subs, then they could either be wired to 0.5 ohms or 2 ohms.

And for amps, don't get that kenwood. Matching brands doesn't gain you anything.

For the money, this is a great amp. I owned it's older brother. It does 1000 RMS at 1 ohms. After box rise and not having perfect voltage, this will match your subs perfectly.

2009civic

And to what golnat said earlier, your electrical will be just fine. If you want to be safe, do the big 3. If you decide to upgrade later with more power, then you will have to beef up your electrical. And do not ever play your system with your car off. Your battery will be drained in a matter of seconds.

jordan1794

I'm confused now; With the two outputs on the amp can I, or can I not wire the subs to two ohms?
Also, the subwoofers are DVC, but only have 1 positive and 1 negative terminal each...

Think I'm just gonna email crutchfield again, they answered all my questions the first time I got subs.

GolNat

iTrader: (7)

If they only have 1 + and - then as far as I know they are SVC not DVC. If they are single then you can wire them in parallel and use only one output of the amp to get 2 ohms. If they are DVC 4 ohm, meaning 4 ohm's per coil, then you can't get 2 ohms with a pair unless you have 2 channels. Maybe this will help.

http://crutchfield.custhelp.com/app/...UEkxWUJYWWs%3D

jordan1794

Ok, apparently the subs are SVC...guess when I bought them the place I bought them from had their info wrong, oh well...from what i see that makes things easier.

So mono amp, 2 4ohm SVC subwoofers should be pretty easy to wire to 2 ohms.

2009civic

Tell me the model number on the subs.

And even if the amp has more than one positive and negative, doesn't mean you have to fill all the empty spaces. No matter how many subs you have, their should always only be one negative and one positive going to the amp.

jordan1794

Subwoofers:
Kenwood KFC W3013
Amplifier:
Kenwood KAC 9105D

GolNat

iTrader: (7)

Correct. It is easier since they are SVC. Wire it like this.

http://crutchfield.custhelp.com/rnt/...no_2-4OSVC.jpg

Also your box volume should be equal to the subs output. Every sub has a speaker box volume that it operates the best at so your enclosure should match that or be close.

2009civic

Since he's using mediocre subs and has a prefab sealed enclosure, I don't think he care's too much. But in the future if he get's more serious, then he needs to get a box design and build a proper ported box.

And OP, once you get everything hooked up and set the gains like I told you, you will notice that it is not very loud. Now that does depend on what you have heard before. But if you have heard good setups, then you will think yours is quiet. Mainly the reason is becuase of the box. Sealed boxes that are bought off ebay or walmart/best buy are junk. Same with the ported boxes they sell. A proper box is built to the subs specifications. If you want me to go into further detail, then PM me.

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

have you looked here too?

https://www.civicforums.com/forums/1...ts-sale-5.html

2009civic

Do not get the Big 3 "kits" that are sold on here. The wire is too small when using for an upgraded system. That wire size is about the same as the stock wiring. For what you are doing, you need at least 4 gauge. I do it in zero gauge which is the best option. The whole point of doing the big 3 is to give the flow more current by using better, bigger wire. Which reduces the strain on your alternator.

GolNat

iTrader: (7)

Zero gauge is over kill!!! Unless you do stereo competitions 4 gauge, even 8 is sufficient. You dont run the subs at full power. I think the whole grounding kit idea is a little over kill unless your pumping some serious power. Just my opinion.

jordan1794

@2009civic Sorry, but I don't think the subs are " mediocre ", I've seen these subs hooked up to very powerful amps and they blast like the best of them. Of course I don't really care about the bass, I want balance of music...
And the box is a pre-fab, but it is made for these subwoofers specifically, place I bought it from created 200 of them(Deal included the two woofers, box and some wires+ free shipping from california for 100$)
All the wood connections of the box are triple sealed and it has a double layer of sound damping carpet on it.

I am new to car audio, but I'm not ignorant, I have done research...for my budget and skills the deal was perfect for me, as is this amp...

I'm not doing competitions or anything, just want it to sound good. The same company made 200 more of the bundle, but with specific made ported boxes instead...i chose the sealed box because I like to keep the bass in the car and to keep it balanced, rather than the bass overpowering the music. I won't be cranking the subs to show off or try to crack my window, again I just want it to sound good, the current amp is from a pep-boy black friday subwoofer deal, as you can imagine its pretty bad lol.


About wiring though, currently I am running 4g for the power and ground wires to the amp, and then 8g i believe for the rest(subwoofer speaker connections, remote wire, etc.). I was assuming I should go on the safe side and do all the wires 4g with the new amp, is this needed though?

P.S. video of the subwoofers on the current amp:
P.P.S. The massive trunk rattle near the beginning I have fixed, along with almost all the other rattles.
P.P.P.S. The amp isn't great, but I have it set to NO distortion, the distortion in the video is because my camera mic can't pick up the bass
[YOUTUBE][autostream]http://autostream.com/ibcivicforums/?page_type=firebirdplayerthumbnail&framepage=1255& transactionid=1337994384-7610494123&posted_by=jordan1794_www.civicforums.co m&youtube_video_id=Aj8HUogvzb8[/autostream]

jordan1794

& Here is a video of them playing to a song with massive/ridiculous amounts of bass in it:
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwHTQoVPPww&feature=g-upl[/YOUTUBE]

GolNat

iTrader: (7)

I think the 8 gauge that you have is plenty I wouldn't change it to 4. 10-14 gauge would have been good for the sub wires. The remote wire carries little current so it can be 14-18 gauge. The 4 gauge + and - is good. I have 8 gauge for + and - and it's works great. A little extra won't hurt. Subs sound good!!! I think it will sound really good when your all done.

2009civic

Haha.

Once you learn about other brands other than mainstream then you will understand.

Ever heard of Sundown, Skar, Digital Designs, DC, Sound Solutions Audio, Fi? All of these brands make some of the best subs and amps available on the market. For y'all, you haven't heard much instead of Kenwood, JL, Alpine, Sony, Pioneer. Which are all, well, low quality. Alpine makes an O.K sub and JL makes quality. But for the price, they are not worth it. I'm sorry but please don't try to prove I'm wrong. You haven't actually seen what car audio is.

But for the big 3, almost all cars come stock with 8 gauge wiring. Example, positive to battery, negative to ground. Keeping that size wire while trying to pull more power than what is supposed to be pushed, it puts too much strain on your alt/battery which can kill your equipment in the end. Add bigger wire lets the power run more smoothly through the wires when you are trying to pull that much power. The stock alternator and batteries in cars were not meant to have aftermarket systems in them. The alt used has enough amperage to function the electrical items in your car.

When having a system, the most important thing is having the proper electrical. When you're playing your subs hard and they or the amp gets hot and/or starts to smell, then you're not giving the amp enough power or you are giving the amp a clipped signal. This will seriously damage your equipment. Depending on the size of your alt, you should be fine to run about 1k RMS without doing anything to your stock electrical. HOWEVER, if you have the bass boosts up on your amp and headunit, then you will fry your equipment no matter how good your electrical is. You always want to make sure your voltage is good and you are giving the amp a clean signal.

Another thing that noobs of car audio need to know, CAPACITORS DO NOTHING! They do not help regulate your power and beef up your power. They are a waste of money. They simply hold power in them for a split second then release it. They do not have any benefit. So please do not waste your money on one.

2009civic

Also about your wiring question, 4 gauge is fine for your power/ground for the amp. 8 gauge will suffice for speaker wire.

2009civic

These are two 12's that are made by Sundown Audio. They are 600 rms each and sell for about 190 each new.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ1BV...hannel&list=UL

2009civic

These are two 12s that are made by Skar Audio. They are also 600 rms each and sell for about 175 each. They do great on the lows.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdWLI...feature=relmfu

jordan1794

I quote myself:
"I am new to car audio, but I'm not ignorant, I have done research...for my budget and skills the deal was perfect for me, as is this amp..."

I've heard of all those companies except DC...I know about them, but those are high-end brands that really need a lot of special attention...If I did go high end I'd spend more money than I have and I'd have to build a subwoofer box using the skills and tools that I don't posses and buy a high end amp to match them with the money that i don't have...

I know about clipping signals, used some of the old electrical equipment at my school in my engineering class to see where clipping starts in my headunit with the settings i use(volume level 30 was where i saw it, I never turn it past 26 to be safe)
Can't remember the name of the machine, but it showed the wave and you could see when the wave became flat at the top instead of curved.

My subwoofers aren't high end, but they aren't mediocre...the subwoofers i got from pep boys on black friday? Now those were mediocre...
12" subwoofers at 200 Watts RMS and 500 Max, lmao.

Already researched/learned about capacitors...pretty much only use for them is because (some) of them look cool and display a number that will impress your friends...again though, i'm not for showing off I want sound quality.

Perhaps one day I'll go high end, but seeing as how I'm working, finishing high school and going to college at the same time, as well as moving out of my parent's house I feel like I should be saving my money for more important things...like surviving lol.

2009civic

LOL

The two links I gave you are sundown and skar. Those subs are dirt cheap for what they can do. They are surely not "high end". And the object that you said showed square/curved waves is called an O-scope. It's best if you could ever get your hands on one again. A

And trust me, I know exactly what you're going through. I just graduated high school. I work full time while paying for school and paying off my car while still balancing in a girl friend. It's not easy stuff. Yet I still managed to save what I knew to save and spend what I knew I could spend.

Oh and by the way, that's only about half of the brands that I listed.

Another thing, the subs I listed do not need special attention. The sundown sa 12's are rated for 600 rms and people throw 1500 at them daily and they don't break a sweat.

jordan1794

I'm confused...
I started this topic because I was confused about whether i needed to upgrade my electrical or not and how much it would cost...
I've figured that out mostly, thanks to one person here...

Now what I'm confused about is why some random guy is trying to sell me sundown subwoofers and trashing me for not buying them?

Ah...some people




Well I'm done with this thread, Thanks GolNat for all the helpful & kind advice, I'll send you a message with a link to the video I'm gonna put up once I get the new amp installed.

2009civic

Golnat was giving you wrong information. But go ahead and burn up your setup.