chuey_316

I'm looking at my nieces car, a 08 civic lx. When I start it, it runs ok. Idle is a little rough, but not too bad. It will drive fine as long as it's not given too much gas. I drove it around town for about 10 minutes ranging from 20-40mph, and it would do ok. Soon as I gave it more to see what it would be like at 55, the cel would immediately come on and be flashing. The car will lose power, not wanting to upshift unless I'm extremely gentle on the gas.

I had to drive it 25 miles or so to get it to my place to look at it, with it doing this the whole time. I managed to get it up to 60mph, but if not careful on the gas it would downshift and loose a lot of power and speed. After the car is shut off, and restarted it is fine again until given too much gas. Also after the cel comes on, if you stop for any reason, the car will only want to go around 8-9mph, and after about 10 seconds or so it will slowly start to gain a little power.

I've ran a scan and came up with a cylinder 1 misfire, a cylinder 3 misfire, and a multiple cylinder misfire. I don't think any of them would lead to this problem though. It acts like the tps, so I probed the wires and got a smooth response throughout the throttle range, but I got .94v fully closed, and 3.98v wot, which is off from the .5-4.5 that I see online.

Today I unpluged the tps to see how it would do, and it didn't want to go over 2k, and a few mph, so I never left the yard.

It's not the trans slipping. When it loses power, and doesn't want to shift, it literally loses power. Rpm's stay low and all.

chuey_316

For got to mention, her battery is completely shot. After driving for a good 1/2hr or so, it'll have enough juice to start the car a handful of times, then it's time for a jump. The alt, last time I checked it, was putting out somewhere around 13.5v if I remember right.

RIPSAW

She needs a new car? HA.. Put a new battery in it and make sure it's charging correctly. Should show about 14.5 volts DC at 2000 rpm with a DC meter on the battery. Clear the codes and report back.

chuey_316

She does need a new car.lol Just looking at the engine bay make me come up with new and interesting curse words.

I'm about to call her and tell her that we ned to replace the battery before anything else. Regardless of whether it's the problem, it needs to be changed anyhow.

She's just trying to make it until she gets her taxes, then she's getting something else.

ezone

Fix the misfire codes. That was probably the root cause of the entire mess you have now.

Continued operation with misfire, poor running condition, or rich running condition can and will ruin the catalytic converter.

A damaged, melted, or broken catalytic converter element leads to a restricted (clogged) exhaust, which may have already happened judging by your description.

Fix the Misfire first.
See how it runs.
Then go further if needed.
If you can't make it run good without a whole bunch of money, you may want to hold off on buying the battery.
-------------------------------------------------


Exhaust restriction (or even an intake restriction for that matter):

Stick a thin little coffee stir-straw in your mouth, breathe through only that straw, and try to run around the block. Go ahead, I'll wait here. That's the same effect as an exhaust restriction. You might eventually get there but it will be slow and you can't be pushed to go faster at all.

Misfire: Now take a sucker punch in the gut while breathing through the same tiny straw.....and try to run around the block again...while taking another sucker punch in the gut at every driveway along the block. How far are you gonna be able to jog like this?

That poor engine feels the same way LOL

chuey_316

Ok. I'm thinking start with new plugs, and check/clean the egr. Is it safe on this engine to pull the egr, block the exhaust port, and pour seafoam into the intake port to soak and clean the passages? Also, anything else easy and quick to check out?

ezone

08 Civic LX?
How many miles on this car?
Is it leaking coolant or is the radiator low?


Forget EGR. Forget seafoam. Forget the TPS.
Firing the parts cannon only wastes money, and you usually install cheap parts that may be worse then the good original parts you removed. You install new problems.
Do I need to put up the picture of a parts cannon being fired?






If I think the cat or exhaust is restricted, I may remove the top O2 sensor, look inside at the top of the cat substrate with a strong flashlight, see if the element is melted (may or may not reveal anything worthwhile)

Now that the top O2 sensor has been removed...that opens up an 18mm hole to let exhaust out, the engine should rev up just a little bit better now if a restriction was truly present. Start it up and give it a try.

Does it rev a little better?
Does it still have misfires now?

I might first see which miss code repeats right away after erasing memory.

If it still has misfires, can you verify which cylinder(s) are dead by disconnecting each coil one at a time?

Then remove the coils and plugs, lay them out and keep all of them in original order (mark each coil if you want)
Inspect the plugs before buying anything.
Anything obviously different on the plugs pulled from the cylinder(s) that the code said were misfiring?

Got a compression tester? Now is the time to check it, this may be important.

Swap the plugs to a different cylinder . Note on paper which cylinders you swapped those plugs into. Swap coil to another different cylinder and note that.
(Example: if miss is on #1 cyl: swap plug with #2, swap coil with #3, see where code sets next time you run the engine to find out what could be the problem)

Now fire it up and see if the misfires are on different cylinders or the same cylinders:
Did the miss follow the plug?
Did it follow the coil?

BUT:
If you still have 2 miss codes or confirmed two separate and dead cylinders while running, you may have to try the swapping different things around a few times to narrow down possibilities.
You had miss codes on 1 and 3, so I'd swap plugs between 1-2 and 3-4 then retry, see if miss codes move. If no change, then swap the coils amongst those same cylinders as you swapped the plugs. See if the codes move.

chuey_316

Not sure on the mileage. The odometer started reading 12345 after the service light came on.

I did have to fill it for her 2-3wks prior to this issue, and it took a full gallon. Could have taken more, but it was bitterly cold out, and she didn't have enough fuel to run it up to operating temps to get the stat to open. I check the oil at that time and it wasn't overfull, and looked/smelled fine.

Didn't think to check that. I've always had cars with a clogged cat rev ok in park/neutral, but have no power driving. This car has plenty of pep driving, just ***** the bed after a certain point in the throttle. I'll definitely check it for sure though, thank you.

I've erased the codes a few times, and checked then after running it again, and it's always the same 3 codes back in there.

I do. I was going to check that when taking the plugs out.

Thank you for the help. I'll check out the things you've suggested on my next day off, and report back. Thanks again.

RIPSAW

Thanks from me to ezone...Post 7 is a $200 answer. Good Karma for you for sure for at least 2 weeks..

ezone

The letters and numbers are the maintenance minder codes, that's telling you what services the car expects to be done at that interval. You also have a % showing OR the miles you have gone since the oil life % reached zero.

Above your left knee, find the 2 buttons...Push select/reset to bring back the odometer and tripmeters.

Full gallon of coolant? This sounds like it could be a bad situation now.

Where is it leaking?
How hot has it been? Is the orange oil dipstick melted or charred...about 4 inches down from the ****?



In fact, stop right there and find out where the coolant went ASAP:
Time is of the essence, no fooling around now

chuey_316

Not sure where, but during the time it was in the garage (about 2 hrs when I brought it home) running on/off, I didn't notice anything on the floor, and no coolant smell. Car was running hot which is what lead me to check the coolant before, but hasn't ran hot since.


Dipstick not melted/charred that I noticed. I'll check again though.

ezone

See pics above. Look for leak evidence (stains) on your engine as indicated in the pics

ezone

The coolant had to go somewhere. Any recent work that could explain the loss of a gallon without leaving a trail of evidence? Radiator replaced or some such?

chuey_316

No work has been done to the car since she got it a year or two ago. I'm off tomorrow, so I'll have a chance to check it out. I'll check the fluid levels before anything else, and see if I can get a look at the block as well. Is it an area the I can see from under the car with a light? Or even refill if low and let it run in the driveway for a bit, and monitor for leaks?

chuey_316

I watched a youtube vid on it and see that I can spot the areas on the front from above.

ezone

If leaking on the front side in either location, that should be real easy to see with the hood up.

ON the back/underneath, a leak could come from the starter area (hidden by the starter), and the 4th place would be inside the black cover and would slowly fill the oil with antifreeze if leaking there.

chuey_316

Just started looking at it. Both areas on the front of the block are clean. Checked the coolant and it is still full, although it's only really been ran for maybe an hour since last filled. Oil is not over full, and looks good on the dipstick, but I opened the cap, and it does look a little milky, hard to tell if its from a small amount of coolant, or just from the oil to me.

Also worth noting is that even when in park/neutral, the car seems to hit a governor at or just under 4k.

Have not been able to check any further yet. about to clear the garage so I can pull it back in and fire up the heater.

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ezone

Normal.
EDIT: Cold engine running will leave a milky film of condensation in the oil cap, that's pretty normal especially in the winter cold and on 'short trip cars'.

RIPSAW

I don't rev my cars in park/neutral. Is there a rev limiter for park/neutral?

chuey_316

Okay she does take a lot of short trips. I was reminded of a problem that I once had with my IROC, so I disconnected the TPS and ran it for a couple minutes around the block, then cleared the codes and plugged it back it. I was able to get it up to almost 100 on a back road with no issues. Then off course as I was pulling back in the CEL started flashing again and I was back in limp mode.

I switched the #2 and #3 coils and plugs and the misfire did in fact change to cylinder 2. Also at one point a code was thrown for the pedal position sensor that came after the TPS was already hooked back up and codes cleared, but I have been unable to replicate it.

I'm gonna track now whether the misfire is from the coil or the plug, but my guess is coil because the plus look great.

ezone

Many times, yes. Some are programmed to look for active VSS or a trans range switch gear input before allowing the engine to rev to redline. Depends on what the engineers wanted in the design phase.

If you switched coils AND plugs between those cylinders, you only proved the problem moved.

Swap parts one at a time to verify which exact part is causing the problem, before spending money.

chuey_316

When I brought it home out only had 2 bars on the fuel gauge, and through testing it dropped to one, so I put some gas in it and brought it up to 5 bars and continued troubleshooting.

This time I switched only the coils around from 2-4. Took it out and drove it for a good 25 miles, and I could not get the CEL to come on no matter what I did, although it was missing at idle, and missing bad at 2k.

Hooked the scanner back up, and there were no stored codes, but there were pending ones. All misfire codes. I had to leave and don't have the scanner on me to check the log, but it was cylinders 1 and 4 for sure, and either 2 or 3.

chuey_316

Sorry for the delay in updating, but she just dropped off money last night. Changed the oil and plugs today, and it's running alot better. Still has a miss around 50-55 and 1.5-2k, and at idle, especially under load at idle. Checked the codes and had a cylinder 1, 2, 4, and random misfire.

I put it in reverse with the parking break on and started unplugging the coils 1 at a time. 1 and 2 both made the car run very rough and the car would die. Coil 4 made no change.

Checking the local parts stores for a coil now. Can get a Duralast, or an Import Direct for the same price (about $51) any concerns about either of those?

Also, what's the consensus on ebay coils? I'm seeing new ones for like $10. Kinda skeptical, seeing that big of a price difference.

ezone

That only proves #4 is a dead hole, it doesn't prove anything about the coil.
STOP!!!!!


Swap #4 coil with one of the good coils, then recheck and see if #4 is still dead.

IF the miss doesn't follow that coil, it's not a bad coil.



EDIT: Or have you already done this?? I didn't read the rest of the thread.

chuey_316

The coil that is on cylinder 4 now Was originally on cylinder 3 and that cylinder had a misfire code. I switched it with the coil on cylinder 2, and the code jumped to #2. Then #2 and #4 was then switched, and now #4 is misfiring.

ezone

Ok, thanks for clarifying that.


I stick my nose in so many threads here it's damn hard to remember who did what.