alvinecigs

Yes they did. That is what has me stumped.

alvinecigs

I don't know if maybe i knocked a wire loose from the fan or what ever. But.. does the fan have anything to do with the clutch kicking in? It had pressure when I had the r134a can connected to it trying to fill it. I'm not sure what is going on. Feels like I am worse off now then when I took on this journey. I followed everything step by step.. I don't understand.

ezone

Chain of events:

You turn on the HVAC panel (fan) and push the AC button

HVAC panel sends an "AC Request" signal to the engine computer (PCM)

The PCM decides if it is ok to operate the AC, by looking at system pressure and state of the thermal protector, along with looking at other engine sensors and whatnot (throttle position, coolant temperature, etc)

If those inputs are ok the PCM turns on the radiator fans and the compressor clutch.

----------------------------------------------

You have no radiator fan operation, so apparently the PCM is not allowing the AC system to operate, for some reason.

Since you just had the compressor out, I would have guessed the thermal protector has a problem since it's stuck to the outside of the compressor.

Or maybe its not making connection to the corresponding female pins in the 3 wire connector above the alternator.

ezone

What is the static pressure in the system right now?


And I hope you didn't try to jump the connector on the pressure sensor.
It's not a switch, it's an actual sensor and you can damage the computer if you short terminals together.

alvinecigs

What are the connectors on the pressure sensor? I'm not even sure what that is so I doubt I did that. Let me check pressures. Do I need the car running with the AC on to check the wire leading down to the compressor? Is the bullet connector supposed to be getting power?

ezone

I'm not telling you!

K

Engine off. Static pressure means system not operating.

The AC system does not work. There can't be any power until the compressor is turned on via the relay
(PCM --> relay --> compressor).

alvinecigs

Took relay out.. I have voltage on one but 0 ohms on the other.. Ugh.. Pressure 118 low 100 high.. 90 degrees.

alvinecigs

Ok. So I have ohms and voltage at relay.. I have continuity on the outside pins on top of alternator leading down to compressor. I have voltage coming out of the far side of alternator pin going to engine. I have no voltage at the bullet.. Weird..

ezone

You CANNOT have power at that point on the side of the compressor unless the clutch relay is turned on or you jump the relay socket.

Your fans aren't kicking on, therefore the PCM is not turning the system on.

----------------------------------------------------

Disconnect the 3 wire connector above the alternator:
Use the half that is attached to the harness from the valve cover, (not the compressor):

Start the engine, turn the AC system on
Bridge the two outer terminals with a fine wire or paper clip or equivalent

Do the fans kick on?

alvinecigs

No. Not at all

alvinecigs

Ok, So I finally got the car back in my driveway. I can do all the trouble shooting immediately.

ezone

And you did not use the plug with the red wires, right?

What voltages do you measure on the 2 terminals?

Damn I just lost my wire diagrams.....


Does the interior fan work?
Has anything else quit working?

Got a CEL ?? Codes?

Done a HVAC self test?
Done a gauge cluster self test?

Dash fuses # 36
Engine comp fuses # 20, 9
Oh hell go through both boxes and check every fuse you can.


This could be so much easier if I knew what the PCM is seeing....

alvinecigs

Woah Hoss.. I checked the wire from the engine. Only voltage on one of the outter terminals. Interior fan works. CEL? don't know.. HVAC Self Test? Don't know.

How can you see what the PCM is seeing?

ezone

Which wire? Write the colors here.
What was the voltage? Specific number please.

What was measured on the other wire? Open? Ground? Voltage?

Check Engine Light. Does it stay on with the engine running?

This looks like the right one here, last page of this PDF http://www.pontiacpower.org/pdf/ACtestUS.pdf



scanner data list

alvinecigs

[QUOTE=ezone;4693690]Which wire? Write the colors here.
What was the voltage? Specific number please.

What was measured on the other wire? Open? Ground? Voltage?

Check Engine Light. Does it stay on with the engine running?

This looks like the right one here, last page of this PDF [B]http://www.pontiacpower.org/pdf/ACtestUS.pdf



Ok, I'm not sure the color of wire because the wire coming from the engine that connects on the alternator is covered by a black plastic sleeve. The one on the outter of the plug is the only one with voltage. 12 volts.

The system has no freon. Should I jump the pressure switch to get the compressor going and to suck in the freon?

ezone

Peel the sleeve back and look.

Now answer the other half of that question set:
This is important.



Let's try this one again too:
What is the static pressure in the system right now?

I don't care if you got the correct amount of refrigerant in it or not. Static system pressure is all that's important right now.

NO!!!
As stated earlier: That is a sensor, not a switch, and you may ruin the engine computer if you try to jumper any terminals.

You didn't leave it unplugged, do you?
Did you already jack with it?

alvinecigs

What was measured on the other wire? Open? Ground? Voltage?
I'm not sure what wire you are talking about. I pulled the sleeve back and it is the green wire with white stripe that has 11.41 volts.

I have not jumped anything.

As for the static pressure, how would I do that? I have a can of 134a on the yellow hose of the guages. Do I just hook the high and low up and give you that pressure?

ezone

The 3 wire connector on top of the alternator has 3 wires.
You got (nearly) battery voltage on one of the outer wires, the green/white. Yes?


What reading can you get on the other outer wire? Voltage? Ground? Open circuit?
(engine running, AC system turned on)

What colors are on that outer wire? (my diagram has multiple choices)




I don't care about the middle wire right now, I already know what it does.

k
Yes.
Earlier you said the system had about 100 PSI in it so I ran with that....but now you say there's no freon in it.
How much pressure is in the system?

alvinecigs

ezone

Ok that's sufficient pressure to get the system to start operating. Thanks.

alvinecigs

I got these guages from autozone. which way do I turn the ***** to open them up or close them? I have them open on the car ports.. but can't figure out how to open or close them on the guage.

alvinecigs

Ok, so I switched out the relays thinking that was the problem. Well I found the omerion one that I took out. I put it in and now fans and compressor/clutch is working. Now, how do I put freon in it?

ezone

Oh boy!



Since the system had been opened and exposed to air, did it get evacuated (vacuumed)?


Charge on the low side.

Connect bomb, run the system, open the low side valve.


What does your freon capacity label say on it? 400-450g?

alvinecigs

Yes it did get vacuumed. I read on this forum it was 15 oz. I put in one can (12oz).i will put three more oz in tomorrow..

alvinecigs

Just wanted to say your awesome Ezone. I really appreciate you guiding me through all this.

ezone

Your relay issue messed with me there.
I was totally expecting the system was still in a configuration of "it worked this way" before you took the compressor off.

So did it have a bad relay, or was it just missing from a socket?

alvinecigs

When this first happened I replaced thetclutch clutch relay with one from advanced auto. Well, last night I seen the original Omarion (or whatever the brand is) and put it back in there. This a lesson.. DO NOT USE RELAY FROM AUTO PART store.. That was the issue..

alvinecigs

Uh oh. Went inside 20 min and came out and AC not working. Clutch was not moving. Got home, tapped it and it started to work. I only put 2 shims on there becuase it wouldn't engage with 3 shims. Should I try to add one, or take one away. I would think that if you have to tap it then it is too far apart but not sure.

ezone

You didn't bother to set up the clutch gap correctly..... even after going to all the trouble to take the compressor out of the car and put it on a work bench where it would have been EASY to set up correctly...??




The shims are not there for counting 1-2-3.....

The shims are selective, different thicknesses so the gap can be adjusted to spec by measuring and selecting the appropriate thickness.

If you get the gap too wide, it won't work at all or it quits when it heats up.
If you get the gap too small the clutch will drag, overheat, and wear, or just be stuck on unable to disengage.

alvinecigs

I stuck the .20 in there.. It came with 3 shims..