ezone

Longass thread here, several pages long

https://www.civicforums.com/forums/197-mechanical-problems-vehicle-issues-fix-forum/349755-2007-lx-c-clutch-wont-engage.html

alvinecigs

Woah. I just realized something. I did the ohm test on the wire harness that went down from the alternator BUT it was the male end. I probed the pin sticking out, not the part coming from the engine that had the holes in it.

ezone

You mean you didn't check on the half where the harness goes down toward the compressor?

It's the half on the drivers side that leads down to the compressor..

ezone

alvinecigs

Yes it went down to compressor but it was the needle part.. Not the holes..

ezone

You would ohm test on the center terminal in the half that leads down toward the compressor.

You would check for battery voltage on the center terminal in the half that comes from the engine wiring harness bundle. (after proper setup, jumper in the relay socket and all that.)
Meaning male and female terminals?

alvinecigs

Yes. Male. I will test for voltage in a bit. I'll post the results but as for now I'm looking at buying a new clutch and coil. Oh, would the clutch and coil have anything to with my car almost dying and stalling very bad everything the compressor kicked on?

ezone

Can you rotate the clutch plate by hand? (did the compressor lock up?)

Does the plate look like it's been baked/burned?

Twas late and I wasn't thinking. If the compressor locked up it could try to kill the engine, up until the clutch overheated and let go.

alvinecigs

I can rotate the clutch by hand. Doesn't look burnt.. Still bronze colored. Thinking about the testing and I've tested right up to the boot connector from coil and it's getting power.

alvinecigs

Im wonder if I need a new compressor also since it was almost dying when the thing kicked on everything. You could definately tell when the compressor kicked on.

ezone

I don't even want to contemplate that, I didn't get to experience it first hand.

If it was cooling ok and not making noise before it quit, and it isn't locked up now, I'd expect the compressor is ok ....but I can't tell you that for certain.

Had anyone messed with the freon prior to this event? Is there any logical reason it would have been overcharged?

alvinecigs

Yes there is a huge reason and that is why i was questioning the pressures. 2 years ago I took it to dealership because the ac was not working. They kept telling me nothing was wrong with it. Finally after a couple of times of taking it there they vacuumed it and refilled it with freon and dye. Well, year later which was in the summer the warranty ran out and they would not check the dye. After they refused to check the dye, I was thinking it was low on freon. I put a whole bottle of freon in it. Well that still did not make it work. Took it to local mechanic and he started turning the dials in the car..and waaalaah, it started to blow VERY COLD. Come to find out the dial was stuck or something and I didn't need freon. That is what has happened.

alvinecigs

I know I know. That was probably the stupidest move anyone could ever make, but i did it and apparently i am paying for it now. ugh..

ezone

Ok sounds simple now. Replace the clutch and get the freon charge corrected.

I JUST got done replacing one without taking the compressor off, I'll post some pics later.

alvinecigs

Clutch and coil? Or just clutch?

ezone

Both.


Motor mount is already taken apart because I was partway through this job when I thought to take a few pics
3 wire connector on top of alternator:



Ohm test of the coil from this connector as previously described (using alligator clip jumper wire)



That's a K on the ohm scale there, and it was kinda moving around while I had the meter connected to it
Better pic of the meter:



You could do the same check at the bullet connector on the side of the compressor, same results should be obtained:





So the coil is confirmed to be junk. Time to replace it and the clutch set.

Take apart the motor mount (the pointy stud was not supposed to come out, no big deal) so I have some room to swing wrenches, get the belt removed, and I can jack up the engine for more room when I need to with the mount disconnected:



Removed wheel, peeled back the plastic splash guards and fender liner to reach the front of the compressor





Clutch plate removed, one single adjustment shim was found and removed


The snap ring holes just happened to be in a good position for this job, both were set to the 9oclock position....otherwise, the body is in the way and I would have had to try to get the rings to spin or unbolt the compressor from the engine.


Fuzzy, sorry.

This pulley happened to move fairly easily, I'm using a wrecking bar because it has a nice curve to it. You can't see I have another prybar on the opposite side to wiggle, because you can't pry on just one side of the pulley. Gotta keep it moving evenly.





More prying and wiggling, block of wood , pulley almost all the way off now


The pulley was freed, but kinda trapped with not enough room to get it past the shaft. A prybar between the subframe and the oil pan got the engine to move about 5mm, enough to get the pulley free.

Down to the coil:


And the snap ring pliers stuffed into it



And the screw that held the ground wire and the clamp over the wires now removed


Bare compressor snout:



Pile of stuff on my roll cart LOL



Just so ya know what the new coil checks at:



Reassemble in reverse order of disassembly. Make sure snap rings face the correct direction, one side has a beveled edge.

Coil installed, clutch installed, now checking and setting the clutch air gap using a dial indicator...Spec is .50mm +/- .15mm.




I did not have to touch the freon, I did not have to unbolt the compressor.

alvinecigs

Hmm.. it all looks doable except the last part with the dial indicator. Oh, and the pliers. Looked around people say they have to be long.. how long am I looking for? Could you give me a basic tool list that I would need to do this job?

ezone

You can use feeler gauges instead of the dial indicator.

Look at the pic of my crash cart top center in the silver magnetic dish, you can see the 2 sets of snap ring pliers I used, the snap rings are still stuck on the pins.

They have to be long enough to reach the snap rings deep in the hub as seen, and they have to have the correct size tip diameter to work in the holes of the snap ring ends.

Basic tool list? Uhhhhhhh.....my entire toolbox, all 5 of them?

Hoist

jackstand

screwstand

wood blocks

bungee cord assortment

air (or battery) impact guns

air (or battery) ratchets

prybar assortment

pushpin removal tools

pliers assortment

snapring tool assortment

2 and 3 jaw puller sets

bionic eyeball

lights. bright lights.

Mirror. On a stick.

19,17,14,12,10mm, sockets, swivel sockets, wrenches, etc

torque wrench (center nut is 19 ft-lb)

I used some huge jaw channel locks to hold the clutch plate while torquing the
nut

another person to hold those while I operate the torque wrench

really short phillips driver on a 1/4 inch ratchet

4 people interrupting and asking stupid questions

loud brain burning satanic devil worship rock-n-roll music playing loud at one end of the shop

twangy tear in your beer country music playing loud at the other end of the shop

one manager cussing at me saying I'm going too slow and I'm a lazy idiot

one service advisor saying they need me to change oil for a waiter

parts department saying they still can't find the last piece I need to do this job but it's in here somewhere

another advisor saying they need another one checked out (for free, of course) because they don't trust the first guy they had look at it and get parts ordered before cutoff time for next day shipment

first advisor keeps checking on my progress because this has to be finished today, and can i do another waiter with a low tire light on

three french hens, two turtledoves, and a partridge in a pear tree

ezone

there's something else I was gonna write but I forgot now

ezone

Oh yeah now I remembered..... Since it's (probably) overcharged right now and that's going to need resolved, go to your shop and have them recover the freon out of the system, that way you can pull the compressor out if you need to..... Then when you are done go back and get the freon charged by weight.

If you disconnect the lines, replace the O ring seals with new AC O-rings.

kvcxn

Was gonna start a new thread but I feel like it's all relevant... what would be the next step if terminal 3 had no voltage reading?

The AC on a Honda Civic 2007 gave out mid-ride about 2 days ago. I've been following this thread and the other ones you've posted in, this is what I've tried so far:

1) turned on AC to cold and high, fans come on
2) clutch doesn't engage
3) tapped the relay, clutch didn't move
4) with engine not running, jumped 3&5 with paper clip and pushed on the clutch. Did not engage
5) read terminals 3&5 for voltage, 0 reading from 3 and a very small reading from 5.

ezone

Using the micro relay diagram in post #6, terminals 3 and 5?

One of them should have 12v battery voltage (I never remember which one LOL). If battery voltage is missing, a fuse is probably blown. Fuse #20, (7.5A) in the engine compartment box is for the AC clutch.
(If it's blown, there's a reason it blew and you gotta find out why.)


Leave the clutch relay out, replace the fuse, recheck for 12v on terminal 3 or 5 in that socket.

If you got 12v now, then ohm test the other terminal to check the clutch field coil.

With one meter lead on battery negative post, the one that leads to the clutch coil should show roughly 3.1-3.5 ohms @68 degrees (slightly higher as temperature rises)
(same result as if you tested at the bullet connector on the side of the compressor, or center terminal in the 3 wire connector on top of the alternator). If it shows much less than 3 ohms, the coil may be shorted internally.

kvcxn

Ahh! Yesterday I could have sworn terminal 3 (the one people confirmed as battery on posts) was 0V. Reading battery voltage now. Seeing 0 ohms for terminal 5 though. Gonna continue following this thread, so far seems everything is lining up.. minus the overfilled r134.

Update: dammit.. ohm test on center terminal also reading 0

kvcxn

Just to double check, when doing the ohm test on the 3-wire connector, this is what I'm looking at, correct?



And taking the reading on the middle pin here:

ezone

Correct, center pin on the harness that goes down to the compressor.
Also, check the range on your ohm meter, use the lowest range that will give a reading with actual numbers. Probably the 200 ohm setting, or whatever is close to that (meters are all different LOL)

If you check using a 2k, 20k etc. range, resolution in the single digit range is not possible.

kvcxn

Yep, no reading. Looks like I'm in for a clutch set and a field coil as well.
Thanks a bunch for your replies and posts!

ezone

Zero ohms resistance would be a dead short.

Go to the bullet connector on the side of the compressor and recheck ohms there?

kvcxn

Wasn't able to reach it and I don't have a jack to go at it from underneath.

Even so, I thought 0 reading here most likely meant a bad coil?

I mean, I don't THINK I have a rodent problem...

ezone

Zero meaning open circuit, or zero meaning dead short to ground?
Big difference here.
Either is wrong, but you still should rule out wiring issues as the cause.

There's a foot of wire between the plug you checked at and the next connector for the actual coil (the bullet connector).

Many people think the factory warranty should cover rodent damage LOL!! Little buggers can cause some expensive damage too.

kvcxn

Ah, my bad. 0L not 0 ohms.

I'll try again today after work but it's a really tight fit. I could probably unplug it but I can't see myself being able to get a lead down there and reliably touching the connector.