Tiboi

Hi,

I bought an used Civic 2009 dx-g with 55K on it. At a cold start, the engine is making a rattle noise for about 10 minutes. It does it only on load. I know the injectors could be noisy but that has nothing to do with.

It was hard to get a good recording inside the car so I recorded the sound by tapping my ipod infront of the manifold on the oxygen sensor wire. Listen to this audio file :
The first part is after 3 minutes from a cold start. The second one is after 10 minutes.

The dealer changed the belt tensioner but it did not make any difference. It cost me a lot already.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

Fliptard

Sounds like the valves need adjusted, either that or the oil pump isn't getting enough oil to the head, causing the valves to chatter.

Is the overall performance worse? or does it have plenty of power.?

If loss of power goes with the noise, the engine spun a bearing and is toast.

ezone

Did the dealer (I assume a Honda dealer) diagnose it to be this part for your noise complaint? If it didn't resolve the problem, then there is a problem and IMO they should resolve it.


If it is an internal engine noise (that is not caused by valve adjustment or carbon), we have a 5 year/60,000 mile powertrain warranty (in the USA) that would probably cover it.

Valve adjustment is maintenance, not a warranty matter.
Carbon is also not covered under warranty.





But really, I can't discern noise in the video (laptop, you know) and engine cold noises that vary with load tend to be more piston related than bearing related.

Aluminum pistons are machined to be the correct size at operating temperature. This means that when they are cold, they are slightly undersize until they heat up to operating temperature. They can make noise due to this, and might be considered normal (if this is the case).

Compare to an identical car if possible.

Carbon buildup on top of the pistons can also make noise, under nearly identical conditions as the piston noise.
Low quality/low detergent gasoline is probably the most common culprit I see here, along with certain driving habits.
Read here, read all of it: http://www.toptiergas.com/
Not sure what country you are in though....


Thoughts on my lunch break...
HTH

Tiboi

The performance is not affected. I thought it needs valves adjustment but the car has only 55K. But the oil pump could be an issue. Also, maybe they forgot to change the oil filter. I will take a look with the dealer.

Thanks

Tiboi

I tried many civics before I bought this one and I never heard that rattle when cold. I have sensitive hears and I know this one is abnormal. I can hear the injectors and valves clicking which is normal. But that noise, even if it is weak one when driving the car, is loud enough to raise some concerns.

I am in Canada and the gazoline is ok. Well ,as far as I Know.

The car as only 55000 kilometers (34000miles) so valve adjustment or carbon issue...low chance. I know..bad luck is possible.

Thanks

ezone

Carbon buildup is entirely possible. It does not take long.

That top tier site I linked has Canadian gas stations listed too, check into it.

http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html

Don't burn low quality fuel!

Poopies

iTrader: (4)

Some people throw Techron or Lubecontrol products in there too to help solve that problem.

Tiboi

Nice to know Thanks!

Tiboi

The dealer told me there is an issue with the engine. They will confirm tomorrow. A part or the engine block will be replaced.

A civic 2009 with 34000miles on it that needs a engine to be repaired??? I still have a hard time to believe it. I thought that I would save a lot of trouble by buying this car from an old man. He was the only owner and had all maintenance done at the dealer. The car has been inspected at Honda and certified. Maybe his little sun took the car for a weekend and beat it up...who knows?

I searched for a month and was careful. This is my first Civic. I am so disappointed.

ezone

Did this one make the noise when you checked it out prior to purchase?

A fluke?
It sure seems tough to hurt one of their engines ---- as long as you keep decent oil in it.

Don't be disappointed yet. If you DO get disappointed, blame the dealer for not resolving the problem!

I'd complain about the charges for the belt tensioner too, get reimbursed for that if you can...since it did not fix the problem. (If I read that right)

I'm all ears....It's so rare to see a Honda with real live engine noise issues this early in life. I want to know what they do to fix it. And make sure it's fixed.
I certainly hope they cover it under warranty... If it is a Honda Certified Used Car, it should be. I assume this car was a really recent purchase, like within the last 30 days?





There's a reason the IndyCar series ran Honda engines for so many years....

HPD entered the Indy Racing League's IndyCar® Series in 2003, and in 2006, Honda became the single engine supplier to the series. The company continued the role through 2011. For six consecutive seasons, Honda powered the entire 33-car starting field at the Indianapolis 500®. And for six years in a row – the only six times in Indy 500 history – not a single driver dropped out of the event with an engine-related problem. Throughout Honda’s six years as the single engine supplier to the series, a total of 98 different drivers completed 1,188,376 miles of practice, qualifying and racing, with only six race-day engine failures. No race-day failures were reported for the entire 2008, 2010 and 2011 race seasons. A testament to the durability found in Honda's products.

Tiboi

Yeah there was subtle noise and I mentioned it during the drive test. The sales director says he could not hear it. He knows personally my father. So I kind of trust him and I could not believe it was from the engine since the car had only 34000 miles. I told myself that the AC belt would be the worst. This dealer is in my hometown which is 5 hours from my house in Montreal (Canada). So I did not think he would have make me come that far for a junk.

He proved to me that :

• The car used to belong a 64 year old man. I have the licence paper of that man.
• The car has been maintained thoroughly by the dealer and the odometer has been roll back.
• There were no accident by using a digital paint thickness gauge and went all around the car with me.

The car paint has no scratches, the inside is really cleaned and the car drive like a charm after 10 minutes from a cold start. I do 46mpg on the highway which I think is aw some!


The problem is that I am afraid for the future. I will talk with the dealer technical advisor to see what he thinks about this car. I would not want something else to let go of me in a few years.

You are right, it did not fix the problem but they told me there was visual signs that the belt and tensioner had to be replaced. I did not pay anything since the bill was send to my hometown dealer where I bought it. It is still not clear if it was really that bad or not. I will never know.


I still have 3 weeks from my 30 days warranty and 2 years power-train warranty.


Still wonder if it is really a fluke or something else. I will call tomorrow to talk to a technical advisor before they do anything. I hope they checked the oil pump, oil filter....

ezone

Ummm, at best, it is only a machine.
Things will wear out and break eventually.


Be glad it isn't a Chrysler product. You'd be worrying about the next few weeks instead of years. LOL


Report whatever the fix is please!

Tiboi

Honda asked the dealer to adjust the valves first. But it did not work.

Then they asked to machine the head. I will know the result monday.

Honda Canada are not usually fussy with procedure according to the representative. But they are this time for unknown reasons.

Mostly, they will end up changing the block engine anyway.

Tiboi

They changed the engine block. Of course the engine run really. Just need to adjust the idle I guess because there is a little vibration when on neutral. Otherwise

ezone

You cannot do anything as far as adjustment, don't even attempt it.

Take it back to the shop with your vibration complaint.....Changing an engine block is a dang big job, so if there was a mistake made, let them have the opportunity to correct it.

Demonstrate the problem to the tech!!!! Don't just talk about it, show it to them!

Tiboi

Today I could hear the muffler vibrating through the trunk. I went outside and the exit pipe was vibrating. That's my proof.

But...there are 2 other things: a noise in the steering wheel that got louder today and a clunk noise when stopping and stepping on the gas quickly.

I called the sales director and left him a voice mail. Briefly, I told him it is a lemon and I am not satisfy. It has been 2 weeks and the car was mostly at the garage getting fixed and I need to drop it again tomorrow.

I did not know it was possible to get a lemon with Honda. This is my 5th car in 20 years and my first lemon! I mean my civic has only 34000 miles and some people beat up their car and still drive it after 150000 miles without issues. All the maintenance has been done at Honda dealer.

Kind of destroyed my trust in people trying to convince me that Honda make reliable cars. I am so pissed!