Honda Civic Forced InductionHonda Civic Forced Induction - When you've done all you can to your Honda Civic Cold Air Intake and upgraded exhaust, it's time to step up to Honda Civic turbochargers and Honda Civic superchargers.
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forgive the title, but a thought just occurred to me.
So im going turbo after I finish basic and I have been doing more reading than anyone probably should, one of the biggest problems with a turbokit is the lag caused by deceleration after the turbo has dumped its load (haha) out and then stepping on the gas again to spool it up.
Now call me crazy buy I think I have just figured out how to eliminate turbo lag, mind you this is a working theory, and in no way a practical application NOW, I would appreciate no flaming, but its going to happen anyway *sigh*
Okay, so first you would need some sort of sensor that is able to be programmed to the rpm level of the turbine that produces the desired amount of boost(lets say 10 psi) At that time the sensor writes a bit of data to a controller attached to a ELECTRICAL motor, which in theory wouldn't take much more juice than a 9v battery, but for obvious reasons, lets hook it up to the car's supply.
Anyway so the electrical motor spins the turbine to the desired level as soon as the acceleration cycle begins again (pedal to metal). at that time, once it reaches the desired boost, the motor can shut its self off, because the sensor writes yet another bit of data to the controller telling it that its got enough juice, grab a sandwich.
I realize that its kind of hard to get a mental picture, just thought I'd share this idea with the community, but If I see this idea on the HKS website tomorrow, I will be very disappointed haha.
Thoughts?
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No. Keep reading. There is no electrical motor out there (that runs off a 9-volt) that will keep your turbine spooled, because by keeping it spooled, you will continue to force that volume of air into the engine, require the same amount of fuel as before, making the car continue to go fast, etc., etc.
One way that folks combat this (the off-pedal lag) is by running a re-circ tube on their BOV. Basically (on a Greddy RS style BOV) you run a tube from the BOV outlet back into the turbo inlet. 99% of factory turbos are run like this. And all that being said, this lag you're thinking of isn't nearly as bad as you think.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicWavelength
This thread (T.E.A.R.S.) was inspired by speedfoos. We all know about his very public and very obscene battle against his car's engine.
There's a good chance that I'm not going to answer your PM.
No. Keep reading. There is no electrical motor out there (that runs off a 9-volt) that will keep your turbine spooled, because by keeping it spooled, you will continue to force that volume of air into the engine, require the same amount of fuel as before, making the car continue to go fast, etc., etc.
One way that folks combat this (the off-pedal lag) is by running a re-circ tube on their BOV. Basically (on a Greddy RS style BOV) you run a tube from the BOV outlet back into the turbo inlet. 99% of factory turbos are run like this. And all that being said, this lag you're thinking of isn't nearly as bad as you think.
is this the recycled bov style?
I was thinking you could have a valve that is timed to open fully AFTER the turbo but before the engine, have this valve release all gases thus not forcing anything into the engine. 9 volt was an exaggeration, using it would cause more problems than it would solve. Still I'm sure if you had a sensor that only closed the valve while the drive shaft was turning you could probably make this work with some tinkering, I'm not suggesting that this is practical for the average user, but I'm sure if you were drag racing, this would be a practical application, with the word practical loosely defined mind you haha.
I'm sure the lag isnt as bad as I'm thinking, I probably wont even care about it given that I'm no pro racer, shoot my civic is stock as it is! putting a turbokit on it is probably going to make my millennium anyway!
I'm pretty sure most stock turbo cars run a recirculating bypass valve system which achieves the same effect as what your talking about. In theory what your talking about is an anti-lag system but not the way they're designed now. Usually anti-lag systems keep boost up by injecting extra fuel into the motor to keep the combustion cycle going during idle(in a nutshell of course). The more common form of this is just the standard bypass valve. When the bov would normally vent to the atmosphere the bypass valve would just reciruclate into the intake manifold. The theory behind this is it keeps the revs up between shifts. If you have the revs up between shifts then you don't lose boost as badly. The only problem with this is when your trying to slow down it still shoots the revs up when you depress the clutch.
That was a long kidna rant...sorry if anyone couldn't follow...it was pretty out of order.
I'm pretty sure most stock turbo cars run a recirculating bypass valve system which achieves the same effect as what your talking about. In theory what your talking about is an anti-lag system but not the way they're designed now. Usually anti-lag systems keep boost up by injecting extra fuel into the motor to keep the combustion cycle going during idle(in a nutshell of course). The more common form of this is just the standard bypass valve. When the bov would normally vent to the atmosphere the bypass valve would just reciruclate into the intake manifold. The theory behind this is it keeps the revs up between shifts. If you have the revs up between shifts then you don't lose boost as badly. The only problem with this is when your trying to slow down it still shoots the revs up when you depress the clutch.
That was a long kidna rant...sorry if anyone couldn't follow...it was pretty out of order.
kudos for trying, shoot look at the rant I originally had!
I was just thinking out loud on a boring night, as speedfoos pointed out above, the turbo lag probably isnt as bad as I imagine it is. Besides This is just going to on a daily driver 06 si, that I want to be ABLE to juice a ricer in a little rice rocket. you can see my plans here. buildin the motor up!
The other issue is load. Turbos work off of load. The only way to spool it is to put load on it. There's no way for anything but the motor's output to feed the turbo.
Having a motor attached to a turbo completely defeats the purpose of having a turbo other than massive boost for half the price of a supercharger. The biggest thing would be parasitic loss. See the thing about superchargers is they carry a significant amout of parasitic loss compared to a turbo. If you were to run a motor to the turbo to get it to spool you'd still be experiencing some sort of parasitic loss to the motor wether it be voltage loss, extra rotating mass...etc. The solution's actually rather easy for a "no boost lag" system. Twincharging!!!! Twincharging takes the advantges of both. There's still parasitic loss from the supercharger but IMO the turbo's lag free performance makes up for that. Either way unless you have a rallybuilt motor and turbo the whole antilag kinda thing just isn't worth it. Any form of antilag is actually pretty expensive...oh well...
Twincharging takes the advantges of both. There's still parasitic loss from the supercharger but IMO the turbo's lag free performance makes up for that. Either way unless you have a rallybuilt motor and turbo the whole antilag kinda thing just isn't worth it. Any form of antilag is actually pretty expensive...oh well... 
