LinesideEX2000

Hopefully this helps....

1. It is an intermittent problem... sometimes it will happen three times in 2 miles of driving, then sometimes I can drive for two days without it shutting off.
2. The check engine light used to be on P0420... now no light on at all for months.... I haven't pulled code since light went off
3. It seemed to begin after installing an aftermarket stereo...could just be a coincidence though.
4. I always hear a click behind glove box where I think AC blower is located..the click sound is either right before or simultaneously with engine shutdown
5. It seems that it happens less when I don't run AC. Again....seems.
6. Sometimes stereo mysteriously does not power on for days...then one day I start car and it powers on.
7. There is a Service bulletin on ignition switch replacement but not a recall for my VIN. 100000 Civics were recalled.
8. Never in two years have I seen the low gas indicator light on until two weeks ago it just lit up..but only this one time.
9. I "jiggle key tested" the ignition and it never shuts the engine off.
10. The power stays on after the engine shuts off.
11. Nothing near the ignition or under column feels abnormally hot.
12. Last week, one time, I pulled the key out of ignition in the off position and the power stayed on.
13. Ignition position one- no dash lights....position two-no dash light on but radio comes on.....upon start only SRS and High Beam indicator light comes on then SRS shuts off. Parking brake light works...A few weeks ago....I think the oil light and battery indicator came on...not sure.
14. I never hear fuel pump turn on in any position
15. Seldom does engine restart right away after dying... the majority of the time I have to wait at least 3 to 5 minutes to restart it.
16. Many times will happen.... engine runs fine after I initially start it for the day. Then, I shut engine off for 5 to 15 minutes to run errand...restart it.....drive for 1 mile or so and it shuts off.

Again...I hope this information helps.

The car is not worth very much but it drives well and it has 204k on engine. I am hoping someone can help me with advice because my local dealership will charge me a ridiculous amount for checkout....

Thank for any help you can give me....I appreciate it. It's a dangerous problem to have!

BB

GolNat

iTrader: (7)

Sounds like an electrical issue to me. With the car running I would pull the radio out and jiggle things around and see if the car shuts off.

Master Yoda will have more helpful insight though!

LinesideEX2000

Thanks for reply.....I'll try your suggestion and post findings.

ezone

The usual list of suspects for a 'dies while driving' problem was

ignition switch-- faulty electrical contacts (ALL could do this, no matter if listed on the recall or not)
main relay
coil and/or igniter


Gotta be able to do the checking immediately while the car is still dead----before it heals itself and will start again.

LinesideEX2000

I called local dealership about ignition switch and they said if they replace it and it fixes problem then NO Charge due to service bulletin out on it. If it doesn't fix problem then they charge checkout, parts and labor......

I call corporate and they say No recall....no fix....and dealership will NOT be reimbursed.

Questions: How does tech diagnose contacts? Visibly....Meter? And, is dealership honestly going to report the truth or does this create "open checkbook for me"? Lastly, does dealership check about reimbursement from manufacturr prior to service?

Thanks,

BB

ps 1977 Blast from Past....I think I was on a Gorden and Smith Fiberflex, ACS 500's and Kryptonics (the big ones)

ezone

By observation. Knowing how it all works together (what's supposed to happen and when) allows one to be able to tell better what may be awry when something goes wrong.

Best way is to get it to act up (stall) and see what happens.

If the ignition switch fails and causes the engine to stall and you are still rolling down the road when it stalls, the dash will be dead, needles all fall to zero just like the key was turned off.
Because that failure is electrically the same as the key was turned off. No warning lights, all black.

Sometimes they will flicker on and off as the switch contacts work/don't work. Sometimes you can twist the key slowly and make the problem act up. Sometimes you can get the engine to start and stay running if you don't let the key return all the way to the run position.




If it's not the ignition switch and you're still rolling down the road when the engine stalls, all the idiot lights will come on because the engine quit running (automatic trans will eventually disengage and let the engine RPM go to zero) zero on the tach, charging system quits, oil pressure light, etc. all come on when the engine stops spinning .... and the speedometer will usually still show your road speed as you coast along, fuel and temperature still show what they did before it stalled.

If you have a manual trans, push in the clutch after the engine loses power and all those idiot lights will come on when the engine stops spinning ...even though you are still coasting along and speedo still shows a speed.



Sometimes if the igniter quits the tach drops dead to zero all of a sudden, even though the engine is still spinning....as you lose power and are slowing down. That's not a definitive cut-and-dry answer though....it depends on the failure, and other failures can cause the same or similar effect.






IF the recall does not apply to your VIN number, then you should be on the hook for the entire cost.

IF your cars VIN did have the recall apply and it's already been completed once, that might be different. IF it's been done once and now that part has been confirmed to have failed again, my opinion is the recall needs to be done again, factory reimburses dealer for the claim. Yes those switches and their replacements can and do wear out.
I bet the dealers district factory rep would have to authorize the work if that's the case.

A replacement switch wasn't all that expensive IMO if you have to DIY it.
Right on! I remember G&S name on boards. I still have a set of ACS 651 trucks and some matching riser pads somewhere around here. Kryps were the popular wheels in my hood.
Mine has Powerflex 5 wheels....and I have a second set...used all 8 on my roller skates.

ezone

You might follow the click you hear near the glovebox when it shuts down.
Main relay fail?
PCM failing causing main relay to turn off?

Thermostat housing ground wire cluster--- all good, tight, clean, shiny?

LinesideEX2000

eZone,

Great advice....thank you! I will report what happens next time it stalls and hopefully I can pinpoint issue....from memory, the dash goes dark, sometimes flickers and everything drops to zero.....however I need to see it again...the 1980's had an effect on my memory....I was poked in the eye so much I am almost blind!

Appreciate your help.....

BB

LinesideEX2000

I have been thinking about this problem and what I noticed and what was different with the car before the onset of the stalling issue.....

1. I had an aftermarket stereo installed by non-pro
2. Sometime later the front stereo speakers stopped working
3. Then, noticed once in a while the radio not powering on at start, only to mysteriously power on several starts later
4 Next...car started stalling

Can radio be causing this?

ALso,

Key Position #1-stereo powers on
Position #2 stereo stays on, no dash lights
Position # 3 no changes
start dash lights come on


I will report what happens when it stalls why driving



Thanks so much!

BB

ezone

??? Radio plays without the key in??

0=lock
I=accessory
II=run
III=start


Without numbers:
Key in Accessory position: Radio comes on, but not much else can operate.
Key in Run position: should have dash warning lights lit up (before starting the engine) and most other electrical stuff is powered up and can be operated.

If cluster warning lights do not come on until after you move key beyond run position (detent) and toward cranking (starter) position, I'd guess ignition switch (the electrical half) is the problem.

LinesideEX2000

Thanks for simplifying my jibberish! It happens EXACTLY as you wrote in your reply. And, sometimes if I slightly turn key from run to start while engine is running, the stereo goes off and one time the engine shut down. When I do this, I always here that clicking behind glove box where you said PCM and Main relay is located...

Couple ?'s:

1. If I pull fuse for stereo and car still shuts off while I am driving, can I assume problem has nothing to do with stereo installation?

2. Could it be bad PCM and Ignition Switch? Or is it more likely the electrical part of the switch?

I really appreciate all of your input.....I am learning alot! Thank you!



BB

ezone

Just replace the ignition switch (electrical portion only). Everything else should go back to normal after this is fixed.


Radio has nothing to do with the failure, but if speakers quit that may be a separate issue with the install.

ezone

I can probably find the Honda part number for the switch later if you need it

LinesideEX2000

eZone,

That would be great.....I appreciate you taking the time to locate the part #......you have been a GOD send. Thank you very much!

Have a great day!

BB

ezone

Link to bulletin PDF with all the part numbers and procedures you need: PDF LINK

BTW this info indicates the recall did apply to your car (all of your model year, no VIN# cutoff), and now that part has again become a problem I'd argue their recall repair has failed and the vehicle is once again dangerous, the recall should be completed again at Hondas expense.One more thing...If you go looking, I kinda doubt anyone doing the recalls really makes a centerpunch mark on the VIN tag.

LinesideEX2000

Dear eZONE,

Thank you for finding and sending the PDF. I agree with you but I need your advice again.....how do I prove "all of your model year, no VIN# cutoff" to the dealership? When I called Honda corporate they asked me for my VIN and said my car is NOT eligible.

Thank you!

ezone

The linked bulletin lists 98-00 Civic (among other cars),

EDIT: I cannot read. The bulletin says not all cars may be affected.


The dealers VIN report is what the dealer must refer to, it tells if the recall has not been completed.


If it was once eligible for said recall and said recall has been completed... and now the same part has failed once again, I'd use the argument in the previous reply. It's still up to the dealer (or Hondas representatives) to make a final decision.


OTOH, how much is the new part, maybe 30 from an internet dealer? Might not be worth your time to argue about it.