dslfreak

2000 Honda Civic LX (D16Y7 Engine)

2 weeks ago, after doing a seafoam treatment (which I think is completely unrelated, but worth adding) I pulled the car into the garage, and 20 minutes later attempted to start it with no luck... after doing some diagnostics, I realized I wasn't getting any spark at the plug, at the cap, or at the coil.. I replaced plugs (which were do for changing anyway) the cap, rotor and coil, I also replaced, with no luck.
I also read that the Main Relay is known to fail, think this has more to do with the fuel system, but I replaced with new anyway

Now, No Check Engine Light, the relay is making the proper sounds and I can hear the fuel pump whine when i first turn the key.

Does anyway have any clue whatsoever? Im no mechanic but I usually can figure out my own issues and this ones really stumping me!

localkineguy

Maybe a bad distributor? Mine just recently went out and it set me back $400

Edit: nevermind, just saw that you replaced cap and rotor. Check that fuse. Measure battery voltage (is your engine at least turning over?).

ezone

Coil must receive a B+ power and a ground trigger (points dwell) in order to create spark. Which of those is missing?


SWAG: ICM (igniter). Grab a dist off of a running engine and swap to test?

dslfreak

I've checked every single fuse, all good and yes the engine cranks.

the one last thing I could change is the ICM, only thing left to change in the distributor (and no i dont have a running exact same engine to test swap with)

How would I go about testing B+ power and a ground trigger? just using a test light?

ezone

I use a voltmeter......for checking the power side of the coil. I like to know if the coil is getting full battery power and not some measly 8 or 10 volts. Test light and eyeballs just aren't very accurate.

then I use a dwellmeter to check the negative side of the coil...exactly same as checking dwell on a points style distributor and coil. If there is any reading at all other than 0 or 90, then it is working. I typically see about 3 degrees while cranking.

I have been known to use test lights too, but a plain bulb isn't good for checking the neg side. I sometimes try a LED type polarity checker test light on the neg, sometimes it works, sometimes I still can't see it blink. Dwellmeter works best for me.


So....figure out which of the 2 wires on the coil isn't doing the correct things, then chase further up the tree that direction.

ezone

At work we have a collection of "known good" parts we can use to check and speed things along.
Distributors, igniters, pickups, coils, etc.

dslfreak

just based on what I've told you guys, does it seem like its the distributor? or is there anywhere else that I've been overlooking?
Should I bother changing the icm? or just getting a whole now dist.?

ezone

You pretty much said you have no spark, and (I just noticed) your check engine light (CEL) also quit?

Did these 2 issues occur at the same time?

Spark is controlled by the computer....
The CEL is controlled by the computer too.

So if all these happened at the same time, then I'd have doubts this is a distributor problem.....
See why the CEL isn't working.
If the PCM isn't properly powered up or grounded, that could be a valid cause of no spark too (there wouldn't be any dwell signal on the neg side of the coil, this would be part of "chasing up the tree" once you found which signal was missing at the coil).

Got any other possible related symptoms?
Any codes----or has the computer lost all communication with a scanner?

dslfreak

CEL was on when i bought the car a few months back, when this incident first started, i hooked up a scanner and got 3 codes, 2 relating to O2 sensor, and 1 cylinder misfire. I had just previously cranked the engine with the spark plug out to test for spark, so I thought nothing of the last code. I cleared the codes in hopes that the light would come back on... but it hasn't since.

I also figure that if in fact i was having dist. problems, i would get some sort of CEL with code relating to that, right?

the only other electrical thing that is different about this car, and I'll add in just so you can get a complete picture, is it had a second battery added in the trunk for the huge amp it came with... i've since removed the amp, and disconnected the battery (mostly cause it was poorly done) but what would be your thoughts on something like this being related?

Fliptard

is the timing belt good and the mechanical timing set?

Do you get power to the distributor?

Also, check you battery terminals, Ground from frame to trans, the one at the thermostat housing and the one from valve cover to frame

ezone

So does this mean the light isn't indicating there is a problem (these can remember codes for a long time even though the light may not currently be on), or do you mean the light never ever comes on at all, not even when you first turn the key on?

Big difference here.


No, the computer cannot watch for all possible problems. The computer cannot tell if there is spark or not, if the coil is any good, nor can it tell if the ICM is working.

If the computer has gone stupid, then it surely might not be able to tell good from bad in much of anything, right?

This can apply to anything and everything, not just this car of yours.

Not likely. If it is disconnected then it shouldn't be a factor.

dslfreak

oh, and I can check for dwell using a multimeter right? I'm checking for ohms on the negative side?

ezone

If the timing belt broke, then the camshaft and distributor will not spin.
Therefore no spark.

But the computer will not know any of that,

ezone

Ohms is not dwell.

ezone

(automotive) In a petrol engine, the period of time the ignition points are closed to let current flow through the ignition coil in between each spark. This is measured as an angle in degrees around the camshaft in the distributor which controls the points, for example in a 4-cylinder engine it might be 55° (spark at 90° intervals, points closed for 55° between each).





Dwell angle is a measure of the duration of time that the primary circuit of the ignition system is closed to energize the primary windings of the coil. It expressed (and measured) in degrees of rotation of the distributor rotor, hence the use of the term "angle".

In actual operation, as the distributor mechanism rotates, the points (or electronic module in electronic ignition systems) are closed for a certain number of degrees of rotation, and open between these points. Simply as a matter of interest, this means that the total number of degrees during which the points are closed, plus the total number of degrees that they are open, will equal 360 degrees.





Electronically controlled ignitions do not necessarily use the same dwell specs, but the measurement method can be the same. Same meter is used.

Fliptard

you need to stop trying to start the car until you know the timing belt is good and the timing is correct. to avoid engine failure.

Let us know this before anymore test are preformed

dslfreak

yes, I have checked for movement... the dist. moves, the valves move, and I can smell fuel when I crank it.
The CEL comes on when i first turn the key and then goes off (i can hear the main relay click at the same time)

Now one other problem I ran into today, apparently nowhere will check my ICM for me except the dealer (who will only test it if i bring (tow) the entire car in and pay for diagnostics (lame)

and as far as battery cables go, I've done "the big 3 upgrade" when I first got the car.

ezone

Voltmeter?

Dwellmeter?

Code check?




.......labscope?

dslfreak

thanks in advance for having patience with someone not so "under the hood" inclined

ezone

Uhhh: Sears? Hell, google it.
I'd guess any old timer gear head in the neighborhood would have one. I know my dad has one.

Got an AutoZone or any parts store that loans tools? Ask there.

Have you actually checked? Just asking because any extra clues can help right now.

I'm a horrible teacher.
I lose my patience faster than Dr. Kevorkian.

dslfreak

Ok, I'll check into all that and get back to you in a couple day (gotta busy weekend ahead of me)

and good movie

dslfreak

SOLVED!!!

So, I feel semi-retarded for even telling you guys what the problem was, but I've figured it out!
I know it was mentioned to check out the battery terminals before, and I had stated I had redone all the ground wiring when I first got the car, BUT completely forget about the positive side of things... I went to completely pull the battery from my car, and when doing so, the entire positive terminal crumbled in my hands from being so corroded. So, that being said, Clean up the wiring, new terminal, and she first up on first try!

The car runs 10 times better then before it even died! (probably from all the ignition parts I changed out while diagnosing the issue.

so, Big Thank You to everyone on here that helps, without this forum I would of never narrowed down the problem as effectively.