Sleeper112

Hi guys, i am dyi newbie and planning to do a timing belt on my 05 ex and also change o ring oil pump. My question is when timing my motor for tdc does the engine need to have oil in it for me to move the crank for tdc? I need to drain the oil and drop the oil pan to remove the oil pump then after installing back the oil pump then will be installing the timing belt and need to turn it two full revolution.

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

To be safe, I'd align for TDC before draining

RIPSAW

Hand cranking to set TDC (be sure to turn correct direction) does not hurt if no oil is in pan. Oil has a wet film shear action that lubricates fine and not need oil pressure to do that. You would have to crank it a long time to get anyplace actually dry. The reason cars have oil pressure is to ensure oil gets completely thru to all bearing journals. As an engine wears out and the clearance grow, more oil leaks out at each journal. So in an extreme case, it is possible for say the rear cam bearing may not get lubricated in an very worn out engine due to a drop in oil pressure by the time it got there. Usually, in cases like this, cars are usually junk long before it happens.

Sleeper112

Thanks for the reply guys. Yes, that was plan to set my timing to tdc ( counter clockwise )first then remove oil and take out the oil pump. My other question is what happen if my crank pulley/camshaft pulley move out of tdc while installing my new belt? Do i turn them individually? Or go ahead continue to install the belt and then set them for tdc again? Any tips so they wont move out of tdc other than carefully and slowly put the belt on accordingly ( crank - over tensioner - under water pump - camshaft ). What do u guys think of using my 1/2 impact wrench to tigthen the crank bolt by first torque it 14 ft lbs then draw a line at the top of the bolt then draw another line for 90 degree by the harmonic balancer area and then using my impact wrench slowly tapping on the trigger till the line on bolt line up with the 90 degree line?

RIPSAW

Been a while. But you need to lock crank with the locker tool. Little short handle tool with a huge hex on it for the damper with a hole thru it for you socket to go thru. Hit the bolt lose and if you are ADD, realign everything a and go from there. If something moves a little after you do pump, realign crank and cam separate to the marks. Remember, new belt,water pump and tensioner bearing. You do have a service manual you are reading out of? Good luck with that 1/2 impact. Hope it's a good one. I have a hudge 3/4 one but it's a cheap Harbor Freight one

ezone

Harmonic balancer/crank pulley bolt: Please post the exact torque specifications and procedures you found in your service manual here.

Sleeper112

i found one of those free manual download from this site and have been reading it for a while and also have been watching different people ( their own way )doing it on youtube and so far i think i have gather enough information to do this job and for me to be confident to do it. I have the 18 volt ridgid 1/2 impact wrench 350 ft lbs and also have the lisle 19 crankbolt socket and the honda special tool to hold it.

Sleeper112

i think the 14 ft lbs torque and then turn 90 degree is found from the manual too and it also said on the instruction sheet from timing belt kit. Some people say torque it to 176 ft lbs or 181 but my torque wrench only goes to 150 ft lbs but i think im going with the 14 ft lbs torque then turn 90 degree.

RIPSAW

Auto zone will loan you a 200lb torque wrench free. My manual says not to use a impact to tighten.

Sleeper112

cool! Thanks for the info 👍

ezone

There's a reason I keep saying these things......According to my information,

Your information is incorrect!


Can you locate the service info and spec for any D17 engine of your model year?

HINT: The torque wrench you already have can be used for this.

mikey1

i dont think that is correct, that sounds like way too much force to me, hope you dont strip or snap it....or even worse crack or break the crank, then you would be majorly F'ed

personally i have never used a torque wrench on that bolt, i just use an 18 inch breaker bar and do it up damn tight, i would probably compare the force i use as the same as tightening up a wheel stud/bolt

GusBuz

I have attached a picture of the manual where it says 14 ftlbs and 90 degrees.

ezone

I see your page doesn't have the latest info, that's an issue.

In October 2003 Honda released an article addressing a service manual revision, changing the above spec and procedure to a simple spec of 148 ft-lb for the crank pulley bolt for all of the D17xx engines from 2001 forward.


See page 2 in this PDF link (download worked ok for me)

http://www.mediafire.com/file/mnnw2m2lhdn/October+2003.pdf


Hope that clarifies at least one issue here

Sleeper112

Thank you guzbuz i was starting to give up and not do this project on my own anymore because i dont really have a manual to follow. I just realized that some of the info that i know could be for a different engine model and not my car. I really wanna do this on my own because i wanna learn eventhough i do have the money to pay to get it done. Would it be to much ask to get the steps pages 2-12 just in case or what manual is this from and where can i buy it?

GusBuz

Heres a link to download a pdf version.

Make sure you note the change from the pdf Ezone put here also, because this manual still has the 14 ftlbs and 90 degrees

http://www.mediafire.com/?oawmyl0k359me1f

Credit to 7th gen Honda forum.

RIPSAW

You do realize a lugnut on a Civic is only 80ft lbs? One thing about that crank nut, it just keeps getting tighter and long as you have it tight enough that it is not too loose.
Years ago, I was replacing my 1994. Had replace my 1985 Civic twice with not a lot of problem. I could not get that 94 bolt off to save me. My 3/4 impact would not break it loose and I had bumped compressor up to 135PSI.
I took car to a fellow I know that was a previous Honda mechanic but had a little problem with alcohol and was a wrecker driver know. He got his lock tool and so help me 3/8 drive snapon tools. He locked it, put the socket on the bolt with a long extension out past the tire and rested it on a jack stand. The he put his long skinny breaker bar on it. He must have weighed 250 and he came down hard and there was this loud crack. First I thought he had broken his tools but as he pulled it out it was OK. Then I thought, OMG, he had broke bolt off but no fear..Bolt was loose. He snugged it up and took his $10. I got home and that bolt was so tight already, it took a bunch of taps to get it back loose. However, you could tell that before I had gotten home, it had banged the key enough to see it and I replace the key.
My manual says 51ft lb and then 90 degrees. It also says if you have a new bolt, to go 130, back it off, then 51 and 90 degree.

51 ft lb and 90 degrees stretch is probably 180 ft lbs. You been lucky mikey or I sure would not want you to tighten up my lug nuts...

Sleeper112

thank you for this information. I have seen pics of broken crank bolt and woodruf key so i think it is very crucial for new diy guy like me to get the right info to avoid learning it the hard way. I think you just save me a major damage here and headache.

mikey1

yes

thats the way i do it.....i slip a 6 foot steel pipe over my 18 inch breaker bar, sometimes i literally stand on the bar, but it always works,

i wouldn't say i have been lucky.....i would say i have lots of experience and have learned good judgement and feel for "tightness" after over 30 years,

i have not stripped or broke a bolt, or had a bolt come loose on me in over 20 years, and that is rarely ever using a torque wrench, unless its absolutely nessessary....head gasket bolts would be one example

ezone

You can gain a lot of experience quickly when you have to fix your own screw ups.
OTOH some never ever learn feel/finesse even after repeatedly ruining stuff.




"Too loose is too loose, and too tight can be too loose too."