9000revs

I am looking for a newer hatch 01-05 Si (due to functionality and older 91-95s are very high miles and modded to the hilt ) and also would like to do some HPDE days. Heard a lot of negatives about the 7th gen regarding suspension and engine. Anyone here using for similar function, if so, what years would you recommend and what mods did you do? Thanks.

mac25

The engines are great.

BUT most of us on here have or had em1s and em2s with
1.7L SOHC engines 100hp or 127hp (crank).

-which make the same power as the previous generation, but the car weighs 100pounds+ more. So the power to weight is worse.

-If you are getting the hatch it will come with the k20
-2.0L engine, dohc, 200hp (crank).



Which is one of the worlds highest hp output per liter engines.
for comparison it makes 200hp per 2 liters or 100hp per liter.
many porsche 911s, lambos and ferraris make 112 to 115 (the porsche 918 makes 130).

The honda f20c (s2000 engine) made 230-47hp from 2L, which lead the world in hp per L for many years. (just an interesting fact)

They take boost and n/a builds very well and have a huge aftermarket fallowing.


...I always thought they were kinda ugly, but I don't like hatches in general, that's why I went with the coupe.

The coupe wouldn't see a k20 from Acura until the rsx in 2002 and the civic si wouldn't get a k series for quite a few years.

9000revs

I though the 7th Gen hatch was 160 hp/130 tq. No?

mac25

Depends on head and year.

k20a2 200whp

02-05 civic type-R Euro
02-04 rsx-s usdm

k20a3 160whp

civic si 02-05

k20c 215wph

2002+ civic type-r (not available in usdm for these years, but came later)

k20z1 210whp

05-06 rsx-s


k20z3 200whp

06-11 civic si
07-10 acura csx type-s

You are right 9000revs that in North America the civic did not get a 200+ whp k20 for 01-05 but we did later and we had it here for Acura, and got it later for the civic.

I would say pick up a civic if that's what you want OP and swap the head, or just buy an rsx-s.

9000revs

Are there any negatives to the 7th gen front suspension, or is it over criticized?

ezone

That sounds about right for the 7th gen hatch (EP3??) USA SI with the K20xxwhateveritwasversionofthatengine......

Check Wiki?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_K_engine

Looks like if you could bump compression up quite a bit you could get a lot closer to 200, but there may be other differences not mentioned there.

mac25

That is a snake pile full of questions.

Luckily I have probably the most modified and tested suspension setup on this forum (I'm not the quickest driver but my set up handles on rails, I can't imagine a tighter handling em2)

My rig
2002 1.7l d17a2 coupe

Suspension mods:
-fenders cut i front 3"
-cut in rear 4"
-2" spacers all round
-front swaybar delete
-24mm rear sway
-dc strut bar
-adjustable coilovers
-camber kit
-energy bushings
-new mounts.
-215/45/17 tire size
-lowerd 3 to 4 inches
- negative 1.5 up front negative 2 degrees rear camber
-zero toe front (can't remember exact toe rear, but it's toed in).

(I don't know or know of a single other em2 owner with cut fenders. no one I race with runs 2" spacers on any car. not may people delete the front swaybar unless you're a track/autoX guy DO NOT DO THIS WITH OUT THE ABILITY TO ADD NEGATIVE CAMBER, IT WILL OVERSTEER WITHOUT CONTROL WITHOUT.)

What I'm getting at is that I understand suspension and racing. I do not have direct input on the ep3 or later civic sedan si.

The reason the issue is so hard is that you first mentioned the ep3 or 01-05 civic 3 door hatch, you also mentioned wanting four doors which would be a sedan which oly came with the k20 much later.

-Those will be different for balance when rotating around a corner.
-different for total weight
-different for center of gravity
-different for body roll
-different for stock understeer

-The smaller and lighter the car the better
so the ep3 hatch should always out compete the sedan.

The ep3 should also have a lower center of gravity because it's roof line is shorter (and I think lower).

-The ep3 should have less body roll because of this.


Now you asked if the suspension is good.

??? in comparison to what?
-other stock civics
-other cars?

The stock suspension is great for what it was designed for both are street cars, both will have soft suspension and a tendency to understeer (which is a safety feature dialed into all factory fwd cars)
you can completely eliminate this as I mentioned above.

The ep3 was designed to be sporty so it should handle tighter than the 06+ k20 sedans.

they will match stock civics of previous years in competition.

But you are going to get spanked at track days by modified civics and stock sports cars.

No civic is a sports car.

The cars that do the best stock while racing are the s2000, corvettes, brz/frs/gt-86, miata and 240.

Those are all FR cars Front engine, rwd.

Of course there are lambos and things like that but I'm talking about the average track car.

You can make a civic compete with those but you will be in a higher racing class.

It will cost a lot of money to get your car in shape to race in comparison to a car that was built as a sportscar.

Carbuff2

Why not try out an HDPE with whatever you are driving now?

"The nut behind the wheel" is the best thing you can 'tune' for the track.

Just make sure all your safety systems are good (brake pads, brake fluids, tires)

The instruction you receive at the track will go far towards making you a better drive no matter what car. (<--- I'm not just saying that because I'm an HDPE instructor in my spare time, LOL)

If you continue with the hobby, you can then upgrade or purchase a car well-suited to the demands of the track.

ezone

Gotta have the proper tool for this, although you might want to get an adjustable model if you have to adjust more than one:


Pilot Wrench

$7.95

Most cars suffer from this horrible malady - a loose nut behind the wheel!! But not anymore. Only one company had the foresight and brilliance to bring you this product - The Pilot Wrench. Quickly tighten the nut behind ANY wheel for instant improvements in responsiveness, handling, and braking! Please indicate how big of a bolt head is behind the wheel before ordering! If unsure, ask your friends.

Also available in metric.




http://kalecoauto.com/index.php?main...products_id=52

9000revs

Long story, since you asked ..

Used to have a 02 S2000 that I did HPDE with. It got totaled sitting at a traffic light and in the meantime I found my dream car, the 00 NSX. Since I already have a 2 seater now (that I do not want to track for many reasons), this time around I am looking for a hatch for some HPDE and secondary DD as I have two kids who enjoy accompanying me on spirited drives (which I cannot do in my DD LS400) I like the functionality of having the hatch as we have a dog too. My first choice would have been a 91-95 Si hatch but they are all in bad condition and modded way too much.

I am looking for a high mileage 04-05 hatch so I can do a K20A4 swap and 6 spd swap into it for dual function. I am familiar with swaps as I used to have a 94 Accord Wagon with a H22A + LSD + tranny.

Thanks and Happy Thanksgiving




[QUOTE=Carbuff2;4716091]Why not try out an HDPE with whatever you are driving now?

"The nut behind the wheel" is the best thing you can 'tune' for the track.

Just make sure all your safety systems are good (brake pads, brake fluids, tires)

The instruction you receive at the track will go far towards making you a better drive no matter what car. (

Carbuff2

I LOVE the tools at KaleCoAuto.com! For HDPE you gotta get a Butt Dyno too.

http://kalecoauto.com/index.php?main...Y5Ek3,W5zLJcp3



+++++++++++++++++

Ever considered a Fit GD? ('07 - 08) They have go-kart like handling and tons of utility. Not especially fast, though. Quite reasonable in price, about $4 - $5K around here.

9000revs

Fits are even slower, so not considering them.

Carbuff2

Not into Momentum Conservation, huh? LOL



I know it's too small for you, but last summer I had an HDPE student with a Honda CR-Z...CVT! Made a good showing for itself.

Have Fun!!! And good luck finding the donor car for your Build.

ezone

Repower a Fit with a K swap or J swap!

9000revs

Not familiar with Fits as much, are K-swaps common in them?

Carbuff2

I haven't heard of a K-swap into a Fit, although someone over on FitFreak.com is shoehorning a V6 into one.

If you investigate the concept of the Fit you will find that the engine and engine bay were designed to take up very little space, so there are some dimensions that won't allow other Honda engines to be swapped-in without some serious mods.

9000revs

I am going to drive a 05 Si soon. Also, wondering since I am planning to do K24 swap anyways, why not look into a 04/05 4 door also..... either case should be a sleeper

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

[QUOTE=Carbuff2;4716091]Why not try out an HDPE with whatever you are driving now?

"The nut behind the wheel" is the best thing you can 'tune' for the track.

Just make sure all your safety systems are good (brake pads, brake fluids, tires)

The instruction you receive at the track will go far towards making you a better drive no matter what car. (

9000revs

Drove the 05 Si and liked it. First time I drove this spec, felt good but not as light. The owner has some rep wheels and big tires that are causing rub at the rear, but that can be fixed easily. The shifter felt great but of course not as smooth as positive as the NSX or S2k. Hmm ... what to do?