mhaller14

Hi all,

I just replaced the input shaft bearing in my 2003 Civic Lx coupe. After I reinstalled the trans, when I turned on the car, the bad bearing sound went away but when I push on the clutch pedal and I put it into gear it makes a clunking sound like the things are stopping all the way to go into gear. Below are a few things to note

• Bled the clutch line
• new clutch installed
• the flywheel was resurfaced
• clutch fork is fully extended when pushing the clutch in

The only thing I could think of would be that maybe there isn't enough trans fluid in the trans, but I watched it overflow when filling it, or maybe the shifter mechanism is in wrong? Any help would be great

The car will go into each gear, it's just tough and clunks. Also, when it's spinning through the gears, the sound seems to sync with the revolution of the motor.

Thanks in advance for any help!

Colin42

Did a new throwout bearing and pilot bearing come with the clutch?
Are they installed correctly?

mhaller14

Yes, both came with it and both were installed correctly. I'm wondering if the slave cylinder isn't pushing the fork far enough back to move the clutch.

Colin42

Maybe,
can you have someone step on the clutch while you watch the fork?
How long did you bleed it for? Sometimes they can be a real bitch to bleed

mhaller14

I plan on doing that tonight ( making sure it's moving the clutch fork as much as it should.) I bled the thing probably 15 times, air in the beginning but by the end it was all fluid coming out.

mhaller14

I plan on doing that tonight ( making sure it's moving the clutch fork as much as it should.) I bled the thing probably 15 times, air in the beginning but by the end it was all fluid coming out.

ezone

Your noise ONLY happens while the clutch pedal is pushed all the way down?
Shifter in a gear, or in neutral?

Did you forget to install the pilot bearing? Or... Is the pilot bearing any good?


How much was machined off the flywheel?
What's the max spec on the resurfacing limit?
The FSM says resurfacing the flywheel is not recommended.

mhaller14

The noise happens only when it's in gear. It happens regardless of how the clutch is. The clutch can be engaged or disengaged and it sounds the same. When the car is in Neutral, the sound goes away.

No, I didn't forget the pilot bearing lol, and its new.

I don't have the exact numbers on the FW, but it was thousands- my machinist said it was good, he just took a little off. I'm not sure about the max spec, but I've never had an issue resurfacing an FW with any of my hondas so I don't think it'd be FW related. Thanks for the help.

ezone

Can you double check these and get more specific about this description?



Clutch engaged or disengaged, and in any particular gear or in neutral....knowing what is rotating under which conditions when the noise occurs helps figure out where the likely source of the noise is.

Wheels on the ground....
Clutch pedal on the floor = clutch disengaged.

While the clutch is disengaged (pedal on the floor), if the transmission (shifter) is engaged in any gear, the input shaft cannot be rotating. This SHOULD eliminate an internal trans noise because this isolates any noise issue to the clutch, throwout bearing, and pilot bearing areas.

If you shift the trans to neutral (while still holding the clutch pedal to the floor) this allows the input shaft to begin rotating due to the drag of the clutch and pilot bearing.
Input shaft and clutch disc are now free to rotate if there is enough drag to get them moving.

If you lift off the clutch pedal up now (shifter still in neutral), the input shaft is rotating, clutch and pilot are eliminated as there is no longer any speed difference in them. Trans is in neutral, so most of the other gears and shafts are stationary. Input shaft (and associated bearings and parts) is the only item rotating at engine speed..

...so is this when your noise is happening?

mhaller14

Hey sorry for the delay. I figured out the bad sound. I'm and idiot and it was just the rotors flopping around. That's the good news. The bad news is it still won't go into gear unless forced. It won't grind, and since the car is on jack stands when you have the clutch pedal to the floor and put it in first gear (with the pedal to the floor) the wheels start moving. I should note that I already adjusted the clutch pedal and put in a new slave.

ezone

Sounds like the clutch won't completely disengage.


#1, the slave should have been unbolted from the trans and left in the car, without disassembling the lines. Was it? If it were, it should have worked as soon as it was bolted on again.

You replaced the slave, so you got air in the system. That hydraulic clutch system can be a huge PITA to get the air bled out completely because the air keeps trying to rise to the top. If you let the master cylinder drain out, it could keep air trapped inside it.

There is a thread in here somewhere that has a bunch of suggestions on ways to get it bled. Vacuum bleed, reverse bleed, pressure bleed....

My favorite is to open the bleeder and have someone else pump the pedal while I use a gloved finger as a check valve over the open bleeder (using speed and volume to purge the air through instead of trying to pump the pedal up and build pressure).

The adjustment on the link at the clutch pedal almost never ever needs touched unless someone replaces the clutch master cylinder. IIRC about 1/4 to a maximum 1/2 inch of free play is all it should have when measured at the end of the pedal (please refer to shop manual for an actual correct spec).
Any more free play than that and it may not disengage right.
Too little free play and it may try to retain or build pressure when it shouldn't.

mhaller14

The Slave was unbolted and when I put the new slave in, I bled it probably a dozen times filling. Up the reservoir 2-3 times. I did pump the pedal for pressure then bleed the line. When I was bleeding it, it was to the point where there was no air. I'm to the point where I might take the trans off again this weekend. Maybe I damaged the input shaft when installing the clutch and the disc is getting hung up on it causing it to not fully engage?

ezone

You're trying to push trapped air downhill, that doesn't work. The air bubble keeps rising between bleeds, so it never comes out.

You can pull the trans back out if you wish, but I think you are fighting trapped air in the clutch system.


You can probably take the lid off a bottle of brake fluid and stick it upside down in the reservoir, that will give you a whole bunch of fluid for plenty of rapid bleeding without stopping to refill the reservoir every 4 tries.

mhaller14

Ok I took your advice on bleeding it and it still didn't work I actually put a shim in front of the ball of the slave and it moved the fork an extra 1/4" and still yielded the same results. If there was air in the line, it wouldn't be able to push the fork to the normal length, right? So me adding that 1/4" of travel should have given the bearing more on the PP fingers. It still seems like the disc is getting hung up and not fully disengaging. Any other thoughts?

ezone

Maybe I didn't quite understand your description?

You don't have the wheels on the ground yet? Apply the brake pedal to keep everything held still, and see if you can put the trans into a gear easily (clutch pedal down, of course).
If it is tough or grinds, then the clutch is still not fully disengaged when the pedal is down.
If it goes into a gear easily then the clutch is fully disengaged.

If you just let the clutch out in neutral while the wheels are off the ground and free to spin, at least one will eventually spin if there is no brake pad drag to stop it. This would be normal.

mhaller14

Sorry for any confusion, I'm just really frustrated with the situation. I still have the car on jack stands as I wanted to make sure it went through all the gears before putting it back on the ground.

With my foot on the brake and the clutch pedal to the floor, the car will go into first, but it's really tough to get it in gear. It's next to impossible to get it into 3-4-5 and R. Which leads me to believe the clutch is just not fully disengaging. I guess that means I need to remove the trans and check the clutch assembly? Do you think I should attempt to drive the car and see if that changes anything?

ezone

Ok, that sounds like the clutch is not fully disengaging.

I would expect the shifter to go toward reverse but grind when you actually hit the position, due to the gears already spinning because the clutch didn't completely disengage.

AS you push the clutch pedal down, is there a lot of 'squish' travel before it feels like it has normal resistance?
Back to the pedal pushrod adjustment, is there too much free play?


Can you use a prybar to obtain more movement in the throwout fork, just to see if more slave cylinder travel is all that is needed to get a full clutch disengagement?



Just throwin some ideas out there.

mhaller14

First off, thanks for helping me diagnose this. When I push the pedal down, there is next to zero squish. It's got normal resistance throughout the entirety of pushing it down.

I went 1-2 turns in each direction with the clutch pedal adjustment with no luck.

Prybar wasn't working for getting extra travel which is why I used that 1/4" bolt in addition. If I push the fork any further, its going to hit the case of the transmission lol.

mhaller14

Update on this- I finally put the tires on the car and drove it. I had to turn it off at stop signs to get it into first. It's hard to get it in every gear, so it's 100% an issue around the clutch. I don't think I ever mentioned it, but it's an OEM style Competition clutch kit *8022-stock)

ezone

Sounds like no amount of extra travel is gonna get the clutch to fully disengage?

I guess pull the trans out and see what happened with the rest of the clutch.

Disc installed backwards? Something warped? Did you lube the splines of the input shaft so the disc is free to float? Splines worn? Disc fits too tight on the splines?

Once you figure out what happened you'll probably kick your own butt all around the garage for missing it LOL

mhaller14

Yup, I think the trans has to come back out this weekend. I know 100% the disc isn't in backwards, splines were lubed ( not a lot since grease can sling and contaminate the disc, I will be putting the disc on the splines to see if it will move. If it all looks fine, I might put the other clutch back on since there was nothing wrong with it.

Chris Kimberlin

I know it's kinda off topic but I'm fixing to do the same project did u remove the trans from the top or bottom amd what all will I need to get parts wise just replacing the input shaft bearing sorry I'm no help in diagnosing your problem ...Im new to to the civics just wanna make sure I'm Goin at it right and have what I need thank u in advance