muniorbust

My father passed away and I now have his 2005 Civic EX Special Edition 70k miles. I have my own car so I will be selling this Civic.

He wasn't into cars. No mods and not maintained.
I'm not into modding cars either, but I've got 15+ years experience as a do-it-yourselfer fixing my own cars, so I'll do any repairs that I'm capable of.

The car sounds bad at the wheels and shakes horribly at 55mph. I'm working on the brakes, which were terrible (original rotors! and in update New York? huh?!!) and hoping that will quiet the wheel. All wheel bearings feel ok to me, but I won't know until it's back on the road.
The passenger side sway bar link was broken. I assume replacing that will get rid of the shakes.
Unless I find a recent oil change receipt, I'll likely do that to.

Anything I should know about this specific car?
Should I just sell it like any old car?
I assume I'll put the car on cars.com or craigslist.

Thanks
Buzz

ezone

Probably due for timing belt job and all fluids?

Sounds bad could be wheel bearings or just simple choppy tread wear....and shaking at highway speeds could be tire balance....or if it has been sitting for a looong time maybe flat spotted tires.

Strycker

iTrader: (1)

With that low mileage, you can should be able to ask a decent price from it. So if you can afford to spend $500 to $1000 to make it drive decent and change fluids, well worth it if you ask me. If I test drove a bad car, I'd never buy it. I'm thinking $1000 in repairs simply because the timing belt and water pump itself will cost you $500 if at a shop, which I would recommend. I did one on an easier car and it was a PITA. Then if it leaks, you have to start all over. Our OEM timing belt went 120k before we replaced on a 2002 LX. I'd think that 70k it would be okay still. Seen some on YouTube with 150k + on them being replaced. Check control arm bushings and ball joints too for looseness. Kits available to replace the whole LCA for like $120 I've found. Not OEM Honda but come with a 10 yr warranty. AM Parts I think it was.

arokz89

i wouldnt' waste money on the timing belt, you still have 50k more miles to go til you SHOULD replace it. Check your lower control arms because the rubber bushing tear and get worn out and that could be causing your suspension problems. a good price to sell that civic would be 6k so that when someone tries to come for it they usually offer 5500 and that would be a fairly high asking price. well at least in SoCal... compare prices on criaigslist. see what they are going for and how clean they look compared to yours.

OptimisticWay

The manual states that the timing belt should be replaced at X number of miles or every 7 or 8 years whichever comes first. I don't remember the exact number of years but it is under 10 years and the car is over 10 years old on an interference engine, SO CHANGE THE TIMING BELT!

ezone

This.

And it's 7 years on the time IIRC.


I wonder if OP understands what can (will) happen if (when) the timing belt lets go on an interference engine.

OptimisticWay

Make it look like this one: https://www.civicforums.com/forums/1...ion-d17a2.html


Click on the link below to see the issues I ran into while replacing the water pump, timing belt, flywheel, pressure plate and friction disc, seals, and much much more!

https://www.civicforums.com/forums/1...ion-d17a2.html

muniorbust

Thanks for all the advice.
I replaced the front pads, rotors, hardware and lubed the slides.
The rear drums and shoes were in acceptable condition and should last several more years. But I cleaned them up, replaced hardware, lightly ground the contact points smooth and lubed them. I also chipped away all the chunky rust from the outside of the drums.

I replaced the broken swaybar link, and then tugged hard on the other side and could feel a lot of movement. So I replaced that too. I like how the replacements have grease ports.

I ran out of time this evening but plan to get the wheels back on tomorrow for a test drive. Kind of excited. I hope she's smooth and quiet.
Buzz

muniorbust

Let's hope it doesn't go before I sell it.
If you were me would you get the timing belt replaced before selling it?
My current thought... if it runs fine without noise, I think someone will buy it.
I'll leave it to them to factor in maintenance issues like the timing belt.

Stock 99

Nope... let the buyer try to haggle with you over price if the timing belt question comes up. I mean that's what people do when buying used cars...let them think they've won by talking down the price on the timing belt replacement.

ezone

I might, then keep the price higher just because.
But I can do the job myself with only a little monetary investment.


And I certainly would consider not doing the job and letting the price go lower just because too.

OptimisticWay

Yes, I just replaced mine and I paid $100 for the timing belt, water pump, and timing belt tensioner pulley from Advance Auto Parts with a coupon code of $50 off $125 and free shipping on line. You need some tools but bare minimum $100 investment will sell the car quicker and when someone beats on it while test driving it, you don't need to worry about sourcing a junkyard engine for a replacement.

ezone

From their reviews:

Pros

• Cheapest

Cons

• Engine Failure

Best Uses

• As A Doorstop

Comments about Dayco Timing Component Kit:
The belt tensioner failed within a week of replacement by a Honda Certified Mechanic. It may have been just the one I got but had to replace the engine after failure and wouldnt trust it enough to consider ever using it again.

Bottom Line No, I would not recommend this to a friend

Was this review helpful? Yes / No

Stock 99

knitted scarf

muniorbust

The likelihood of the timing belt breaking in the less than 100 miles this car will be test driven is very low. If someone bet you $100 that you couldn't break the timing belt in a 15 minute test drive, would you take that bet? What are you going to do, rev the engine in order to break the timing belt? Go off-road? Take sharp turns? lol

OptimisticWay

When test driving a car, I beat the snot out of it. If it breaks, it breaks while you still own it and walk or possibly run but yield no responsibility for the piece of crap car you put up for sale.

A change of the old phone number works as well. We have CWP's down here so any threats you are likely to make will be met with force if acted upon.

OptimisticWay

All parts fail even genuine Honda parts. There is the other possibility that someone would defame another company that makes a quality part that is half the price in order to save some business. But who would resort to that kind of behavior?

pjb3

You are correct that all parts fail, the question is how long will they last before that happens. You mention quality but I am curious how you know the quality from Advanced Auto Parts is the same as Honda? I buy parts from Advanced Auto Parts and AutoZone when they have the part I want from a manufacturer I know. When I buy a Gates belt I don't worry about were I bought it because Gates has their name on it. When you bought the timing belt tensioner from Advance Auto who was the manufacturer? What could possibly be wrong with a part from a store that aims for the lowest price and has parts designated as "good", "better" and "best"?

I have seen manufacturers cut corners on products in ways you would not believe. When you look at a belt can you tell if the cords are in the correct area or if the compound is correct? On the tensioner can you tell if the metal is hardened to spec and the spring tension is right? I understand avoiding high dealer mark-up but I also understand value and sometimes you get what you pay for.

To repond to your other comment, which I assume is aimed at Ezone, you couldn't be more wrong. He has given more advice to people that have helped them fix their own cars and avoid dealers than all the other posters here combined.

OptimisticWay

Are the parts from AutoZone and Advance auto parts and napa and O'Reilly's and Car Quest and insert name made for racing no? Will they stand up to racing and abuse probably. Will the cheaper part fail before the expensive part? It better!

AutoZone and whatever else part will work just fine and have. I have never had a part fail on me involving clutches or timing belts nor has anyone else that I personally know who has used them. So in conclusion, if I am repairing a daily driver(which 90% of what the people who read this are and likely only own one car) then I choose to keep more of my money in my pocket by purchasing the cheaper part that with last as long as I am not abusing it by red lining it in ever gear. That's speaking from my own personal experience.

cja3455

I wouldn't put a cheap part on a 4+ hours of labor even if I was a cheapskater, all the sweat and hard work you can throw in 20 or 30 bucks more and make sure job is done as best as it could; if one won't care about quality, they can save up on stuff like egr valve and oxygen sensor and easy stuff to replace but not on a timing belt tensioner or water pump; and yes the auto parts stores have some quality parts but they often more expansive then online factory parts

ezone

^The life of an engine is at stake here^

muniorbust

My test drive after my repairs ~5 days ago was pretty bad. It was disappointing how much noise I was hearing, all seemingly from the wheels. Did my improvements to the brakes and sway bar links do nothing?
When I was putting the rear tires back on I had noticed more than just low tread. I noticed areas of bald, and not around the entire tire but just islands.. I swore I could actually see bumps it in the profile.
I drove it to a gingerly drove it to the tire place.
After the new tires and all wheels balancing, holy cow! It's 10x quieter! It just entered the sell-able zone.

The only noise I sense now is from the from suspension/linkages. When I hit small bumps I hear movement. I'm thinking it might be a ball joint or tie rod end.
I had a neighbor of mine drive it who has restored cars. He didn't sense the problem. I was surprised. I was in the passenger seat and didn't feel it at all like when I drive. Maybe the extra weight in the car hides the problem?
I drove the car to work today and I felt the problem dozens of times.

I'll jack up each side and feel for play with the wheels on.
Isn't it like left and right play means on thing and up and down play means something else?

ezone

That's what we call choppy tread. Sometimes it may sound like a helicopter or airplane when it gets real bad.
Usually begins on the rear tires, quite often when tire rotation maintenance is neglected too long.

Yes, it used to be if you grab the tire at 3 and 9 oclock and get play it would be steering linkage, and 6-12 would be ball joints, and both ways would be loose wheel bearings..........

but those rules don't always apply to modern front wheel drive cars.
IF you find free play you need to get under it to determine the actual source.

Also look at the cower control arm bushings at the front of the arms for breaking and allowing the arms to contact the subframe.

Swaybar links can make a lot of noise.

Bad struts can make noise but show no outward signs of being bad, used to be pretty common on those cars.

muniorbust

I jacked up each wheel, one side at a time in my driveway.
I grab the tire and tried to muscle it from side to side and up and down as described. I didn't feel any play. The only movement I could feel was left to right but that's because I was steering a bit. I could see the steering wheel move if I peeked up. I didn't have a helper to hold it tight, but I assume I would have felt some play anyway, if there was any. I didn't see any obvious problems at each joint, but everything is up there in age and a bit ugly.

I've driven my normal commute 3 times now and again I'm absolutely certain something is bad here. I don't feel any issues while steering. Fast smooth roads with turns feel fine. It's just every bump makes a thud-like noise, including bumps I don't see. Even small waves in the road. It's not a harsh bang or metal sound. More deadened. I took a turn riddled with bumps a bit fast and it felt like I was bouncing over the bumps a bit and it was forcing me into a wider turn. I also notice bouncing after bigger bumps/waves... like I'm in a boat.
I guess I'm feeling more and more like it has to be the struts. Right? I'm confident in replacing them, especially with coilover kits, but I'd hate to be wrong. Is there some absolute test for these or do I have enough proof?

ezone

Sometimes you just have to make sure it isn't anything else, then go for it.

Did you check the LCA bushings?
Once they tear out, the arm can clunk against the subframe:

muniorbust

Thanks for the advice and pic.
I did check the lower control arms but didn't see/feel any obvious issue.
But I did find the problem!
Apparently I didn't tighten one of the caliper brackets enough when I changed my rotors. When I grabbed the caliper and manhandled it I could feel some play and the thud noise.
The bolt was tighten to the surface but not torqued. Oops. I'm not really sure how I missed that.
I test drove and it's way better. Feels like a worthy car now.

I think the last problem I'd like to solve is the engine light.
P1457 - EVAP Emission Control System Leak Detected (Control Canister System)

Several days ago I reset the code. I cleaned the gas fill tube end with some super fine grit wet sand paper, and cleaned the seal on the cap. Neither looked dirty. Today the light came back with the same code. I've had like 3 cars in the past that had this and never was able to fix them. Everyone always says it's the gas cap and it never seems to be.

I was always told a smoke test is the way to find the leak. Is this the way? Any alternative? I don't suppose there is a common cause for this on a 2005 Civic?

ezone

It's not the gas cap, it's not the gas tank. It's in the canister system.

Search this site for P1457, I've made many posts with pics of a common failure (CVS rusted out)

muniorbust

The problem does indeed appear to be the CVS rusted out.
Following several of your P1457 posts, I soaped it up gave it mouth to mouth. Bubbles!
I removed the canister to get to the screws. The screws required vice-grips and the screw inserts turned out instead of the screws.
So I'll probably use the right sized self-tapping screws for the new one.

ezone

At the point I found the inserts are gonna come out, I write the estimate to include a new charcoal canister.

Uhhhh I wouldn't use self tappers, you'll run through the canister and create more leaks.



I'd tell you to strap the new valve in place with plastic zip-ties or something so its tube and O ring can't fall out of the hole.. Wouldn't be the first one driving around like that.

muniorbust

The "right sized self-tapping screws" would use the holes the screw inserts left behind and would go no deeper. I could put a dab of sealant in the hole before the screw. It would be fine.
Alternatively I might clean up the bad CVS and use some sealant on it, then just epoxy it back in place.