ezone

Bottom end problems (lube and bearings) aren't common with Hondas.....

Googled an article http://espn.go.com/racing/indycar/story/_/id/8353400/indycar-engines-role-play-power-ryan-hunter-reay-title-fight

Quote:

There have been more engine failures so far in 2012 than there were during the entire six-year period from 2006-11 when Honda supplied the entire IndyCar Series field with identical powerplants.


According to figures supplied by Honda Performance Development, Honda suffered a total of 11 engine failures in almost 1.2 million miles of competition from 2006 to 2011. In that time, there were just six in-race failures in 491,000 miles of action, and four of those came in 2006, Honda's first year as sole supplier.

That's pretty F'n reliable in my book.


Yeah, compression will be a little lower though. OP was wanting to get a used engine and go through it, then stuff it in this car. You can get used engines for 500 or so if you look.

If one has plenty of free time and tools, pulling this one apart would be easy enough LOL. Inspect and rering if possible.

That choice is up to the OP.
......Seems like the previous owner already did this to the OP.

bsmiley

Nice statistics, I've seen that used in a Honda commercial. I've read articles over the years that Honda considers itself an engine mfg first and foremost. But for those racing engines, there is a little more to it. Honda did build those engines from 2007 -11. But to be fair, the Indycar Honda engines were designed and built by Ilmor Engineering. In 2005, Mario Illien concluded a deal to purchase the Special Projects part of the company in partnership with Roger Penske, which was under contract with Honda Performance Development to jointly design, develop and produce IndyCar engines. They produced the engines until 2007 when Honda took over production until 2011. On a sad note Honda designed and produced its own Indy racing engines in the early 90s. Bobby Rahal was running close to the front at Mid Ohio in 94 when the engine let go. Watch this video at 46:35 seconds. Bobby has a corporate meltdown about his Honda engine. Needless to say he was using Ilmor engines after this race.
Ilmor is two engineers that left Cosworth and started their own company (backed by Roger Penske). They sell the rights to name the engine. Before their engines became Honda's they were Mercedes. Before that they were Chevy V8s that won 64 of 78 races including the 1987 Indy 500.

usajags84

I have not seen a bad Honda engine! Just bad owners!
Now transmissions in our 7th gens not so much!

I was thinking picking up a used non vtech down here is about $250, vtechs about 400-500
He could probably get his car up and going pretty cheap with some elbow grease and a weekend then slowly save up and do the long block as he wants. It would provide him with some transportation and maybe he could get his current block checked and reringed
My thoughts on bottom end problems were if there was a bent connecting rod causing uneven cylinder ware leading to the consumption

usajags84

I wouldn't ditch the ride!

ezone

This one (*) probably made one hell of a noise just before the engine got very very quiet:



* Not from a Honda

usajags84

* Not from a Honda[/QUOTE]

ezone

That came out of a 13 Dodge Challenger that was driven by ........


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bodVVtqmbZE#t=2m15s






Actually, it made it about halfway through a flooded underpass.

I'll have to grab a pic of the piston sometime. The top was all that was left intact, the rest was shattered.





EDIT: Damn, it didn't link right. Oh well, you gotta click it.

RSKtakR

I dont want to ditch the car and don't plan on it. .If I wasn't mechanically inclined I would ditch it though. This is my wife's car, and I have a new F150 Ecoboost and VW Jetta that she can drive if downtime is longer than expected. I was wanting to just leave the motor as it is now, hoping the additive and slightly thicker oil might solve the oil consumption problems until spring at least, then I will have picked up a good long block from a junkyard and have any machine work done to it if need be, swap it in, then get the current short block totally rebuilt and sitting on a stand just in case.. sounds like lots of work, but I have the room and tools to do everything, other than short block assembly and machine work.
In a perfect world I would like to find a cheap low mileage identical long block in good condition and just swap it in all together. I'm more afraid of pulling the block and head apart and then having to get them back together correctly because I have never had a Honda motor apart, but that's nothing a book/internet cant fix I suppose. Pulling the complete motor out doesn't worry me a bit though and could be done in a weekend I'm sure.

RSKtakR

Where is "down here" ? The only place I have looked for a replacement EX 1.7l long block is ebay, and there is one on there that states 45k miles for $699 shipped with a 90 day warranty. But it also says its a JDM so I'm not sure if that makes a difference or not? There is a u-wrench -it here local to me that I thought about going to look around yet but I don't think there is any warranty for motors or not.

RSKtakR

Also is there a "test pipe" or something that resembles/replaces a cat converter for these cars without having to buy some aftermarket exhaust? I think the P0420 code would be for the cat since its probably shot from the oil being burnt and since the oil might continue to be burnt the same amount (but less hopefully) I don't want to put another converter in only to get it ruined again and a real Honda one isn't cheap at all. The cheaper aftermarket cats seem to fail after 1500 miles or so from what I have read. Anyone have any suggestions on how to get around this? We have vehicle inspections in Missouri so everything has to be there VISUALLY, but no sniff tests. I will also replace both O2 sensors if I can replace the cat somehow. If nothing else, I would just knock out all of the insides of the current converter, but then would I need spacers/non fouler or something on the downstream O2 wouldn't I to trick the ECU? So a factory converter with everything knocked out and a non fouler on the downstream O2 is what I'm thinking. Would this be the cheapest option?

Edit** I am also thinking of doing a sea foam treatment as well, I THINK one of you suggested that in this thread somewhere? However, doing that will clean the cylinders of any of the additive that I just added as well as any carbon on the rings that MIGHT be holding the rings stuck right? (if that is the problem) but is it possible that doing this could just make a current problem worse? Opinions?

ezone

IIRC he's someplace warm like Alabama.

Check this site

www.car-part.com

If you gotta pass a visual --- but no sniffer, then you won't be able to use a test pipe. (Nor a fencepost. Same difference.)

A hollowed out cat would still look like a cat though....but you would need to use the defouler (which probably would be noticed right away on a visual check).......... or you may be able to find an electronic O2 fooler circuit to wire in.

If it were me, I'd leave the original cat in place even though it is causing codes. (The cars computer will red flag a cat long before most state emissions tests would flag it.)
At least it can still clean up the exhaust even if it isn't quite up to snuff for the cars computer.
And run the defouler (if it would pass visual) or an electronic fooler.

I'd leave that cat on there until it clogs up and causes a loss of performance...or until such time as the oil consumption problem is solved and you can replace the cat correctly.




You already have something soaking in the cylinders? What are they soaking in?

Or did you mean the oil additive?

usajags84

[quote=ezone;4672678]IIRC he's someplace warm like Alabama.

Roll Tide! Yes I am in Alabama.

I may and I mean MAY have a cat that would fit your car.
I am currently stipping a 2003 LX with Swapped Vtech, the Vtech I could have bought for $350 with ECU but didnt because I already have two really good running 1.7s. I am going to ask the owner of the motor tomorrow if she wants the manifold or what she wants for it.

However, your cat may not be clogged up it could just be the o2 sensors crudded up. I have heard of people cleaning them with laqure thinner or soapy water. ( I HAVE NEVER DONE THIS nor do I know if it works)

NOTE down here in Bama there is not a sniff test, there is not a visual inspection. If its registered and insured its on the road. (and that's even questionable)

If you want I will ask her the bottom line on the motor.

The motor does run with no cels great but the tranny was shot. However,
1. I have no clue how many miles are on the engine but it runs good and doesnt smoke. Car has 225k on the body, the motor was put in 7-10k miles ago and the auto went out
2. I know the motor was put in by a good shop, they even swapped in the harness (complete did not splice)

I dont know much about the JDM engine scene, I did help a friend put one ihis 6th gen and it was complete and ran fine.

ezone

I believe OP has an EX, so the cat would be underneath instead of built into the manifold.

Does the swapped LX you're talking about have the cat underneath, or is it part of the manifold?

RSKtakR

Nothing soaking in the cylinders, I was just contemplating it but didn't know if there was a chance it would make things worse or not, and I would only do that IF the current oil treatment and 5w30 max life I just put in Sunday morning doesn't work. Have probably 130 miles on it since the oil change and adding that additive and the oil still shows on the same place on the dipstick.... so far.

ezone

Filling cylinders and soaking in a solvent was one possible step in (hopefully) getting rings unstuck. No guarantees.

But.....I'm inclined to say to keep driving and establish for sure just how long it really takes to lose a quart of oil before trying anything else.

So you have a starting point and a baseline so you can tell later on if it's oil consumption is improving or not.

RSKtakR

[QUOTE=usajags84;4672685]
Alabama.. lol I used to live down in Mobile and just moved back up to Missouri about 10yrs ago, still have some friends down there that I talk to often. Yes I have an EX and my cat is down under the car, not on the exh manifold. I will have to pass on the motor for now unless I can use that short block (since mine is an EX) and if the price is RETARDED cheap, and I would just drive my truck down to get it probably. If I need to pick one up I wont be doing it until this winter sometime probably. I might just get bored and soak the converter bolts in PB blaster overnight this next weekend if I get a chance and pull the converter off to see if its clogged full of ****. The wife says the car feels like it doesn't want to go anywhere, but she is use to driving a gas hog SUV that goes when you floor it and the civic just isn't like that. I drove the car and it feels just fine to me other then an odd idle surge/drop at times, (idles up to around 1500, hangs there for a bit then drops down to 600-700 and car has a slight vibration and the idle seems low) but I'm not worried about that at this point. As far as the JDM engine I don't know what the difference is if any, the motor is in CA so I'm not sure how "JDM" it is.. I'm not trying to build a friggen race car here, just a reliable, economic civic, that will last a while. I just don't care to buy a long block like that, then find out that it has different sensors, and the ECU that the car has wont run that "JDM" motor correctly.. I guess I will just email them for ***** and grins and find out.

RSKtakR

As of right now, this^^ is my plan unless you guys suggest otherwise. I wont worry about soaking the cylinders unless the current idea fails.

ezone

There's far easier ways to determine this.


#1, a P0420 code does not mean the cat is clogged. P0420 only has to do with the cats ability to store and release Oxygen during operation.

#2, a clogged cat will hinder performance. (Think of jogging around the block while trying to breathe through a coffee stir straw!)
It would be a restriction that would be noticed during times when maximum flow is demanded (WOT+Redline) in the beginning stages of the clogging. (later stages might include limiting top speed, and go all the way to not allowing the engine to start, if someone ignores the other symptoms long enough.)

There are actual ways to measure this, like a backpressure test or vacuum drop test, but the "floor it and see if it loses power" check is pretty damn effective as long as the trans doesn't crap out LOL.

RSKtakR

ok so maybe don't worry about pulling the cat off then and just put a fouler on the downstream O2 to stop the CE light? $6 seems worth it because we hate that damn light lol

pjb3

I don't know about the entire state but in the St Louis area of Missouri they connect to the ODBC and the car can't have any codes.

RSKtakR

I've never seen that done around the KC area..yet lol

ezone

If you think it would pass a visual inspection.

usajags84

Got the motor out tonight
The cat is on the manifold?? But the motor is a d17a2!
I have several pictures of our pull if anyone wants to see!
Feeling confused!

ezone

You SAID it's a swapped LX, right? That sounds like an LX exhaust manifold on an EX engine (or head). No biggie, it works. How about the wiring for the O2 sensors, have they been hacked or use extensions?? Wiring for the VTEC? Which PCM does it have?

A2 head should have the VTEC solenoid.
Is the oil pan cast aluminum (EX) or stamped steel (LX)?

usajags84

Had the vtech solenoid with blue wire also has cast aluminum oil pan...
I didn't realize you could use a vtech engine with a non vtech exhaust

Wiring doesn't look hacked on but I didn't notice if the 02 sensors were extended factory ends on them.

usajags84

The PCM was swapped for the vtech

ezone

EX.

And hey, there's no "h" in VTEC.
Sure. The engine doesn't care, it will still run.



The rear O2 sensor connector on an EX is on the backside of the engine, whereas on an LX it's up in the front next to the front sensors' connector...... and there is no VTEC wiring on an LX engine harness.

Though if the EX harness was removed from the EX engine during the swap, it's probably not tough to unwrap enough to just move the rear O2 sensor connector around to the front and retape everything.
Just thinking out loud here LOL

RSKtakR

So look.. is she going to sell me that D17A2 short block for $100 or WHAT?? lol

usajags84

Yeah I'll get back to you on that

I sent you a pm

usajags84

We famous for our mud