'02 Civic EX AT - dreaded RPM surge before shift - best strategies?
04-12-2014
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'02 Civic EX AT - dreaded RPM surge before shift - best strategies?
Hello Civic Fans!
I just purchased a cheap 2002 Civic EX Coupe with 200k miles that I knew might have automatic transmission problems. The rest of the car is in very good condition - so putting in a new automatic transmission is disappointing (but not wallet-breaking due to cheap initial price).
When the engine is still warming up, the RPM's seem to surge 300-500 rpm just before shifting from 3rd to 4th.
When the engine is fully warmed up, it seems to do the "RPM surge before shift" mostly between 2nd and 3rd (but sometimes between 3rd and 4th still).
If I accelerate VERY slowly, it seems to do it less frequently.
It does not exhibit the "RPM surge before shift" all the time ... maybe 1/2 of the shifts between 2nd and 3rd when fully warmed up for example. When I accelerate very slowly, maybe 1/4.
After reading some historical posts, I guess that the transmission (torque converter in particular?) has a design defect and likely means that the transmission will fail eventually. Is this correct, or should I try to rule out other parts like the TPS/solenoid/etc first? (i.e. troubleshoot the "true root cause" first).
ATF fluid level is normal+pink color+not burnt. (Encountered the "loose ATF dipstick" and took care of that right away.)
No codes in the ECU (love that $24 bluetooth OBD-II scanner (Amazon) + Torque app!).
A few questions:
(a) Are the above descriptions inline with what others have seen? (i.e. is there something different/contrary/unusual about my observations?)
(b) How much time might the tranny last this way? (seen posts where people claim it has lasted 0-3 years)
(c) With summer coming, will the heat help/hurt the situation?
(d) Would adding a transmission cooler (or anything else) help keep it limping along?
(e) Would replacing the current ATF (brand unknown) with Honda ATF (or MaxLife Dex/Merc) help a little perhaps?
(f) A loaded question, but if one wanted to minimize costs completely (but increase risk), how would you deal with it? (ex junkyard tranny?)
(g) If one wanted to spend a reasonable amount to fix it ($1k-$2k total), what would you do? (ex brand X re-manufactured tranny)
(h) Any "highly acclaimed" Civic repair shops/freelancers near Minneapolis, MN?
(i) What is the "book hours" to take out the old tranny and put in the new?
(j) Any other advice/insight/cautions?
I plan on keeping this '02 Civic a long time (have a '95 Odyssey at 250k - hoping Civic'll go 325k+/6 more years at least!).
My gut says it is "worn down/weak" and failing slowly (wishful thinking that it won't fail catastrophically overnight?).
Probably a 25% chance I could swap the tranny myself. (0% I could rebuild it.)
Thank You Kindly!
David
I just purchased a cheap 2002 Civic EX Coupe with 200k miles that I knew might have automatic transmission problems. The rest of the car is in very good condition - so putting in a new automatic transmission is disappointing (but not wallet-breaking due to cheap initial price).
When the engine is still warming up, the RPM's seem to surge 300-500 rpm just before shifting from 3rd to 4th.
When the engine is fully warmed up, it seems to do the "RPM surge before shift" mostly between 2nd and 3rd (but sometimes between 3rd and 4th still).
If I accelerate VERY slowly, it seems to do it less frequently.
It does not exhibit the "RPM surge before shift" all the time ... maybe 1/2 of the shifts between 2nd and 3rd when fully warmed up for example. When I accelerate very slowly, maybe 1/4.
After reading some historical posts, I guess that the transmission (torque converter in particular?) has a design defect and likely means that the transmission will fail eventually. Is this correct, or should I try to rule out other parts like the TPS/solenoid/etc first? (i.e. troubleshoot the "true root cause" first).
ATF fluid level is normal+pink color+not burnt. (Encountered the "loose ATF dipstick" and took care of that right away.)
No codes in the ECU (love that $24 bluetooth OBD-II scanner (Amazon) + Torque app!).
A few questions:
(a) Are the above descriptions inline with what others have seen? (i.e. is there something different/contrary/unusual about my observations?)
(b) How much time might the tranny last this way? (seen posts where people claim it has lasted 0-3 years)
(c) With summer coming, will the heat help/hurt the situation?
(d) Would adding a transmission cooler (or anything else) help keep it limping along?
(e) Would replacing the current ATF (brand unknown) with Honda ATF (or MaxLife Dex/Merc) help a little perhaps?
(f) A loaded question, but if one wanted to minimize costs completely (but increase risk), how would you deal with it? (ex junkyard tranny?)
(g) If one wanted to spend a reasonable amount to fix it ($1k-$2k total), what would you do? (ex brand X re-manufactured tranny)
(h) Any "highly acclaimed" Civic repair shops/freelancers near Minneapolis, MN?
(i) What is the "book hours" to take out the old tranny and put in the new?
(j) Any other advice/insight/cautions?
I plan on keeping this '02 Civic a long time (have a '95 Odyssey at 250k - hoping Civic'll go 325k+/6 more years at least!).
My gut says it is "worn down/weak" and failing slowly (wishful thinking that it won't fail catastrophically overnight?).
Probably a 25% chance I could swap the tranny myself. (0% I could rebuild it.)
Thank You Kindly!
David
Last edited by TrustyAutos; 04-13-2014 at 03:17 AM.
04-13-2014
#2
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: '02 Civic EX AT - dreaded RPM surge before shift - best strategies?
The torque converter TCC material problem (per the service bulletin) applied only to certain 2001 cars within a specific set of VINs.
It sounds as though your transmission has lived out its useful lifespan and is now due for overhaul or replacement.
You could limp it along in the 'semi-broken' state for an unknown length of time/miles....It could last a long time, or it could poop the bed tomorrow.
You can try whatever bandaids you wish, but I think there will be only one proper fix.
HTH
It sounds as though your transmission has lived out its useful lifespan and is now due for overhaul or replacement.
You could limp it along in the 'semi-broken' state for an unknown length of time/miles....It could last a long time, or it could poop the bed tomorrow.
You can try whatever bandaids you wish, but I think there will be only one proper fix.
HTH
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