mililani

Hello folks,

I have a question. I have a 2001 Civic LX with about 135k miles. This happens to me and this car every time in the past few years: I will go on a long vacation, come back, and try to start my car. It will then proceed to keep cranking with clicking noises, but eventually the car will turn over after almost 30 seconds of cranking the starter. After this, I will proceed to drive it around the block, park it again, and retest. The car starts up perfectly fine after that.

This happens every time I leave it sitting for extended periods of time (over 2 weeks). Is this normal for an older car? If not, what could be the culprit? Any advice appreciated.

Also, should I change the fuel filter of the car? Or should I use fuel injector cleaner?

cja3455

When the battery is old it does that, you will need a new battery soon
For the fuel filter, I never changed that and use seafoam for cleaning

RedDragon333

iTrader: (4)

I had the same issue on my 01 with a lot less milage and it was the result of a dying battery.

Poopies

iTrader: (4)

That happened to me too!

Was your fuel light on at the time? Another quirk with the Civics is that if there isn't much fuel in the tank it takes a bit to build up enough pressure to start. 30 seconds is probably a battery issue like everyone else said but low fuel would definitely exacerbate the problem.

mililani

Guys, thanks for the responses. I don't believe it's a battery issue. I also posted this on a few "Car Talk" forums, and no one really seems to know what could be causing the problem. Some suggestions are to spray starter fluid in the air intake to get combustion. Another idea, which makes more sense to me, is that a leaky fuel valve is causing fuel to back up into the fuel tank. This makes sense to me because my car is parked at a slight positive incline. Gravity would probably be pooling fuel out of the engine.

Anyways, I don't think this is a battery problem at all. The battery in the car is fairly new. I also jump started the car just in case, and it still took awhile for the car to turn over. I also had lots of fuel in the car.

Well, the next time I have to go away for an extended trip, I will unplug the battery and park the car on more level ground to see if that helps. I hope I didn't kill my starter by cranking for 30 seconds.

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

When I was in the Navy, every time we'd go out to sea, I'd unplug my negative battery terminal. When we came back (anywhere from 2 weeks to 2 months, since I always had my sister take my car when we deployed for 6+ months), I'd plug it back in with no starting issues. New battery, old battery, didn't matter.

Poopies

iTrader: (4)

Nah, since you had gas in the tank your starter is probably no worse for wear. Take it from Scotty (it's at 1:47):


[autostream]http://autostream.com/ibcivicforums/?page_type=firebirdplayerthumbnail&framepage=1418& transactionid=1376012295-15019204&posted_by=_www.civicforums.com&youtube_vi deo_id=09o07bh0k-4[/autostream]

:-)

mililani

Ok, so, this same thing happened again, except the car hasn't been sitting idle. I just started it the day before, although just for a short 10 ft move of the car. Tried starting it again today, and it just kept cranking. I had to hook it up to another car, and it just kept cranking but almost turning over. Then the engine was finally starting, but I had to hold the ignition down for 5-6 seconds to get the engine to fully come alive--it would have probably died if I stopped. When it finally came up to RPM, I had to gas it for a bit to prevent the engine from dying. I noticed a puff of white smoke from the exhaust, but that went away after a few seconds. I drove it around, and it drove fine. Stopped it, and then restarted it without problems.

I'm really perplexed as to what could be going on. Should I take it in to get diagnostics done? Or would that not tell me anything? I'm thinking it's not an electrical problem. Alternator and battery seem to be working fine. Coolant is never low, and the car never over heats. So, I'm sure it's not a head gasket. It's not a solenoid or starter since they seem to be working. I'm guessing it has to do with the fuel system. Would fuel injection cleaner help?

TiggerDX

iTrader: (1)

I had a similar issue, but it took 13 seconds before my car would start. Once started it would start quickly every time. I spent a lot of money replacing parts while troubleshooting according to the FSM.
Finally dropped off at a Honda Expert. He worked on it part time and checked everything I had done. After a few weeks, he finally figured out it was the ECM causing it to not start. He replaced with a used one and it has started perfectly every time. That was almost 2 years ago.
May want to start there. See if you can find one to test and see if it helps.

pjb3

I would take it to an autoparts store and have the battery load tested. You say they seem to be working fine but how do you know if they aren't tested? If the battery passes a load test, then I would explore other options.

The last hard starting incident you mention may be the result of moving the car 10 feet. When you first start the fuel to air mixture is very rich and if the engine is run for a few seconds in cold weather it can leave the plugs damp and hard to start.

ezone

You doing this caused it to "flood" on the next start.

PJB is right.

mililani

Much thanks for the replies, guys. Yeah, I also thought that the air/fuel mixture became too rich after that short move because of all white smoke blowing out of the exhaust after the first initial start. If this is indeed the case, what's the best way to over come this? Open up the spark plugs and wipe dry?

Also, TiggerDX, much thanks for that reply! I'll take a look at the ECM. However, I'm not sure how I would know if that fixes the problem because this has happened to me only very intermittently.

I'll also get a battery load test done. Although, I really don't think that's the problem. Even with another battery connected in serial, the car just doesn't start the way it should. There is something else going on here.

ezone

No, it was at the correct mixture. It was doing everything it was supposed to (operating as designed), all except for being able to ignite the mixture (due to fouled plugs).
I expect that was raw fuel in the exhaust that was getting cooked out.
This happens when an engine gets flooded with fuel.
Learn what caused the problem, and avoid that action in the future.
Learn how to deal with it when it does happen, so you aren't freaked out and stranded after killing the battery because it wouldn't start.
Only if you can't get it to start and run.

Get it to run, then drive it. Drive it on the highway if you can.
Drive it until it is completely warmed up.
Don't let it sit and idle, that doesn't get the plugs cleaned off..

Don't ever start an engine, then shut it off without running it through the warmup to operating temperature.
The spark plugs get "sooted" from the rich mixture (necessary for a cold engine, this part is normal).
You are expected to DRIVE it after it runs, not shut it off.
When you shut it off cold, the plugs never reached their operating temp, therefore never got to burn the soot off.
Next time you try to start it, the soot soaks up the gas, the sparks don't jump across the gap to ignite the gas, and the plugs are considered 'fouled'.
Then you keep cranking it, and the fuel washes down the film of oil that kept the piston rings sealed, and now the engine has low compression. Now it has barely any chance of getting to run without help.

Fuel fouled plugs are considered to be only a temporary problem (it's not normally the fault of the plugs themselves, if the correct plugs are used). If you can get it to run they can clean themselves off once they get hot again and will be OK. Or you can throw a fresh set in, since fresh plugs are clean and dry they will try to fire.



There's more to it than that, but there's the nutshell explanation.



I say there is nothing wrong with the car itself, because this can and does happen to any car, old or brand new.
We deal with it all year long at the car lots, usually after the sales people play "parking lot rodeo" rearranging the car inventory on the lot.
It's much worse in the winter. They grind on the starter until the battery is flat dead. Then walk away.
We can't stop the problem, there is nothing wrong with the cars.
It's the people, and (as much as I'd like to) I can't use my pilot wrench on any of them.

TiggerDX

iTrader: (1)

Just do it while they are not looking

mililani

Thanks for all of the input guys. I've been driving the car around and what not. However, I have noticed this problem started to rear its head again a bit in the past few days. When turning the engine over, it doesn't start right away like it used to. It will crank a few times before starting over. However, I just realized something. I park at a slight incline with the fuel tank near the back. I'm also pretty sure that whenever this problem happens, I'm usually down to 2-3 gallons of fuel. So, yesterday I went to get a complete fill up. I drove it around, and it has been starting up no problems. I parked the car overnight, and I went to restart it. No problem. Cranked once and started like a champ.

Also, I forgot to mention that I live in California, and cold weather is definitely not an issue or a culprit. Especially in the past week since we've been having 70 to 80 degree weather for the past 2 weeks. At night, it doesn't drop below 58F. I think this problem may be a fuel system related issue. Maybe over extended periods, the fuel, because the car is parked on a slight incline with the fuel tank and lines fighting gravity, slowly backs up into the fuel tank and loses pressure. Especially since there is less fuel in the tank.

Well, I have some ideas now. I'll test them out and hopefully have some definitive clues soon.

ezone

Damn, I forgot they do this. Now I feel stupid LOL.

For some reason, an awful lot of the cars are like this. Nobody has ever wanted me to chase the issue, so I really have no answer.

My Buick was far worse than any Honda I've ever seen when its tank got low. Many times it wouldn't start at all until I got the car rolled to flat ground.
And when its' low fuel light came on, it means you need gas NOW!


I hate you right now, I stare at my bike at least twice daily.

You can make an engine flood in almost any weather with brief running, but it is far more prevalent in cold weather.

Civicnoobie

I always do this, in the winters when its -40 here, it can be a challenge to get it fully hot when doing short trips. But i always at least get it up to operating temp. Ill usually take a longer route, or circle the neighbourhood a couple times first, or idle longer if im making a trip under 5km. Everyone I know doesnt do this, and they think im just wasting gas when i do this.

mrchowmein

what you do to avoid starting problems when there is low fuel is to turn the car to the On position for about 5 seconds before you start the car. this will allow the fuel pump to start. also, if your immoblizer key is near other keys, you will get the same affect where the starter will turn but the car wont start as the immobilier will prevent fuel from entering the engine. what you do with the key situation is pull the key out and reattempt to start the car