sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

you know, you have a good point in there...
I prefer to do the gasket than the whole engine...

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

strange... my previous post seem to have been lost...

not sure of the prices, sicne i did the job in my garage...

concerning what you could do now, there's one good mod since you have an EX: Crower stage 1 camshaft.

see main thread here:

https://www.civicforums.com/forums/7...ge-1-cams.html

valve lash adjustments can be found in here:

https://www.civicforums.com/forums/7...-question.html

PhillyTurboSix

Thanks for the tip on the cam! The only problem is my budget is very very tight on this over all project. As long as the cam looks good I'll let it go this time around, but I'll sure look into it for the next timing belt change!

PhillyTurboSix

Parts!! Waiting on the head gasket set to come in and the rad hoses.



Thought to my self... I might as well grab some cabin air filters while I'm here.. good thing I did!

PhillyTurboSix

ezone: Question for you. I'm running my scan tool in the car to monitor the engine temps while I use it and wait for my mechanic to get me a slot to bring the car in. It's running around 195 and has spiked up to 203 while on the highway doing 60 - 65 MPH. Do these cars typically have a 195 T-stat in them? Keep in mind it's 30 degrees here lately. Funny part is it's not really releasing air either when I open the rad cap and other then 2 times, it has not pushed out coolant. I swear that guy used some kinda head gasket crap in the coolant and the stuff is starting to now work since I've been using the car on the highway. Either way it's all coming apart but I wanted to know if this is a safe temp range to be in.

Matt_75

From the service manual.

Starts opening: 76 - 80C (169-176F)

Fully open: 90C (194F)

ezone

IIRC, the stat is stamped either 88*C or 92*C? That would make it 190* or 197*F. It's been a while and I don't get to change them very often....
I'm on a sloooow net connection right now so I'm not going to do any looking for proper info.

Operating temp can be anywhere between thermostat opening and radiator fan running (212-220ish?). You are still well within the normal ranges.



Driving steady highway speeds at 30*F ambient temp, I sort of expect that it shouldn't go much over the thermostat temp rating since ram air will keep the radiator very cool. BUT if you are in traffic and on hills, that might make a huge difference.

PhillyTurboSix

Ok thanks for the info guys! Being from the old school, the Grand Nationals called for a 180 stat only to find out years later that's way to hot for them so everyone runs a 160 in them now. Heat soaking is a bitch with those cars. I know the newer emissions cars run better with a higher engine operating temps (drives me nuts but I deal with it) so I let it be. I just thought hitting 203 might have been a touch hot for the cold temps here. I'm just trying to milk a few more days out of it while my mechanic gets the spot to get me in. I'm keeping a close eye on her that's for sure. I check the rad and overflow every time before I start out somewhere. I have the scan tool drapped over the rear view mirror so it's right in my face as I drive. People must wonder what the hell that giant thing is hanging from his mirror! lol

While I'm thinking of scan tools... any suggestions for these cars. I'd like to buy something reasonably priced, smaller, and easy to move around I can run in the car all the time. I like to watch my numbers. I've seen so many out there I'm just wondering if guys with Honda's find a good all around one that does it all live data and don't cost a ton. I think I've seen the Scan Gauge II in some pics on the forum here. Those things are so hard to buy. We have one for the Buick's called a ScanMaster and it's the best thing since sliced bread. Gives you super fast data and don't cost an arm and a leg. So if you have any tips for a nice Scan Tool please post as I'll be looking into one for my Civic going forward.

Thanks again for your input guys!

ezone

FYI, the vast majority of GM products since at least the late 80s used 195* thermostats, and run the radiator fans at around 226*.
You stick a 180 stat in one that calls for 195 and you lost gas mileage right away.
Probably still true as of now, but I have been away from GMs for a few years now. High pressure EFI doesn't have hot soak vapor lock problems.... and newer stuff doesn't have starter heat soak problems either.


No idea on the scanner question, they are all over the map. You get what you pay for.
I use the factory HDS program.
Google Scangauge?

eastsider

I got a ScanGuage II for my Ridgeline a couple of months ago from autozone.com when they were having one of their periodic sales on items ordered online and shipped to your home address. They’re having another sale now, but it ends on Feb. 5. During the sale, you’ll be able to buy a $160 ScanGuage II for $128 delivered (plus any state/local sales taxes). Also, if you buy from autozone.com, you’ll be assured of getting a unit with the latest software version as well (v4.06, as I recall).

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Going back a bit but believe it or not those cabin filters don't actually look that bad. Mine are probably way worse in there right now

PhillyTurboSix

Well everyone say a prayer for me she is in surgery now! The tear down has begun! I'm going to stop by and see how he's making out with her on Saturday. He's hoping to have the head off today and to the machine shop to check it out and clean it up. Just hope there are no extra gremlins as he goes! I should have a damn near new engine bay when this is all done!

He had a newer Accord in there the other day he was working on bitching up a storm because he had to remove the intake the change the starter!

ezone

2.4 Liter. Yup, those are great. Not too bad once you know how it comes apart, but a real b!tch to try to test without taking anything apart.
Even less room to do the job on a CRV 2.4L.

PhillyTurboSix

Things are moving along great! Might even be running again tomorrow. Found a few items I needed from the dealer...

Injector o rings
EGR gasket
TB gasket
Some smaller coolant hoses

That's about all we missed. The best news is the head is perfect! Not warped and it cleaned up like new from the machine shop. Pistons seemed a little heavy on the carbon build up. I guess cheap oil? Cheap gas? Not getting on it much? Large gap between oil changes? What do you guys think? So have a look and let me know what you guys think! I'm surprised there is no oil leaks anywhere on the block.

And here are the pics!

ezone

If it wasn't having a oil consumption problem, then it is fuel.
Don't worry about it.
Carbon on top of the pistons is normal and expected.
If you want to do something, make sure to use Top Tier Gas:

http://www.toptiergas.com/

http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html




EGR distribution plate is cleaned-- excellent.
Are you gonna put on a fresh timing belt while it is apart?

PhillyTurboSix

Oh yes it's all new going back together! Don't know if you can tell but he cut the timing belt just to get it off easy. It didn't look that bad. Gotta wonder how much longer it would have lasted. He said my drive belts were rotted to hell and yet the timing belt looks great! He said the tensioner is good. New water pump and such will go on as well.

No oil consumption issues for the time I've had it. I'll get some of that Top Tier Gas for sure. Figure the carbon on top might hurt my MPG a little.

If you look at the pic with the top of the engine I can see a few spots it looks like that head gasket went.

ezone

No, IMO.

If you don't know for certain which cylinder was leaking, then you can't tell.

Hell, half the time I can't tell either, and I KNOW which cylinder is leaking long before I get approval to tear it apart.

PhillyTurboSix

Head is back on. He chased me out to work on the car today Hopefully Monday or Tuesday!

ezone

I can't blame him on that.
I can't get anything done while distracted, and I sure hate having an audience while I work.

Also, average people don't need to see what actually goes on in a shop.

AngeloS

Hey guys! I don't how to post a thread so i'll post here:
First and foremost, I do not know much about cars, and my car is a honda civic 2004 sedan. My car broke down during the winter storm last friday and just abruptly shut off in the middle of the street. It was towed to the nearest autoshop, and when inspected a couple days later, several mechanics said it was a timing belt problem. HOWEVER, my father replaced the timing belt via a dealership about 2 years ago and they have records of it on their computer. The dealership stated that although they replaced the belt, they may have not replaced the tensioner of the belt and that we would still need to pay. Additionally, my father is telling me that it is better off getting a new car instead, as the repair and labor is worth more than the car itself. What should i do? A friend from pep boys said that i may want to look into buying a new engine online for cheap, and that pep boys would repair for far less. Please help! I do not know what to do and i greatly miss my car

mikey1

these comments would really concern me as to the level of your mechanics experience/knowledge....why would he need to cut the timing belt? that is not normal practice, just release the tensioner and remove it....makes no sense....it didnt look that bad?.....timing belts dont show any visable signs of wear, thats why u need to go by mileage and age/years.....sorry but i am really questioning your mechanics experience going by these comments, and i would be worried if this guy was working on my car

PhillyTurboSix

It was more like put your car back together or get out of my way. From looking at it now and reading the DIY's on here I'm sure I could have tackled it on my own. No lift, no time, and I'm not putting my Buick outside in the winter. I actually run water and rmi in them so I can't have them out in the cold for long. As long as you have a torque wrench and a lift didn't look bad at all.

ezone

Yep. Time is money. My time is billed at a minimum of $2/minute. You can talk all day as long as you are paying.



Dafuq izzat?

PhillyTurboSix

He just cut it to get it out a little easier that's about it. Not much more too it. The guy has over 30 plus years working on cars, had owned his own shop for about 20 of those years, and has done hundreds of timing belts. Every mechanic has their own way of doing things so he just cuts it rather then more knuckle busting getting it off.

You also can actually tell they are going bad, since he cut it, I was able to fold it over backwards and I could see the start of cracking between the ribs. So yea it was starting the dry rot phase so the end was in site. Since that also is the thinnest part of the belt I could see that as a break point down the road if not changed. I'd say maybe another 20K would have been pushing it.

PhillyTurboSix

Funny their site even has a GN on it Best stuff in the world for keeping them cool. You can use it with antifreeze but my cars are in a climate controlled garage all year long so I just run water and some of this stuff...

http://www.rmi25.com/

PhillyTurboSix

Yikes well you have a mess there. If you read thru this thread you'll see the tensioner is good till the 200K timing belt change. So unless you have 200K on your car I doubt the tensioner would be bad. My mech inspected mine and said it was perfectly fine for a car with 100K on it. Ezone saved me that money!

I actually was a store manager for pep boys some years ago. I would stay away from them for repairs. They can barely do tires right! Getting another engine is not a good way to go. Who knows who beat the ***** off that engine and you'll most likely need to do a timing belt on the engine you buy no less or who knows what other repairs. Find a local reputable mechanic and have him look at it. I mean it is possible the timing belt snapped even if it was new. Who knows maybe they didn't install it right as anything is possible. But I would do some local shopping around for a good mechanic who can take a look at it. You can get the timing cover off and see what's going on in there without to much pain. I think my local dealer was 459 for a timing belt service.

mikey1

no, he has not saved you anything yet, that is yet to be determined.....

unless your tensioner lasts till your next timing belt change, you have not saved anything, you could end up losing money big time if it fails between now and then....

dont count the chickens before they have hatched

Matt_75

Dude quit being a negative nancy.

ezone did save him money on his advice not to change it based on ezones vast experience at a dealership with thousands of honda cars. I'm sure his advice not to change it was based on his experience that everything was reinstalled and tightened correctly.

I'm sure if ezone thought it was a high failure item he wouldn't have mentioned not changing it.

ezone

I'm positive that even a brand new part could fail prematurely if it is not installed correctly. Correct?

Ok, it's only one bolt and let's assume it may have gotten installed correctly......


Now, how about the problem of people buying inferior, counterfeit parts at their local (open on Sunday) CHINAZONE? Those may only last a few thousand miles, and cost you THOUSANDS of dollars in the end....right? (Note: The COST of that cheap PRICE).
If I say (or we all say) 'Oh, you GOTTA replace that tensioner set!', most average DIY people are going to choke on the dealers high price and go shop at ChinaZone.
Now we look like we just 8===D (_o_) 'd him for telling him that the car NEEDED it, when all it did was cost them an engine.
Because all parts are the same, right? Few people will see that their cheapassedness is what cost them an engine. All they see is that something crapped the bed.
In this case, the original part is superior to the replacement part.


Oh, I'm reasonably certain it can fail eventually.

My experience has been (and I have come to expect) that the OE part commonly lasts to well past 200k. The earliest failure of the OE tensioner and spring that I/we have witnessed in the shop was around a quarter million miles. This is why we don't normally replace the part upon the first timing belt change interval, but it DOES get recommended at the next service interval.

Plus, the part may be priced at $134-$200+, depending on which greedy SOB is working at the parts counter that day. Hard to sell the timing belt job with parts priced that high, and the dealer is already high to start with.

I really hate the hard sell too. "You car is held hostage and you HAVE to buy this part or else you will crash into a school bus full of Nuns on their way to the Orphanage, and everyone will die in a huge ball of fire."




/damn, did I just write that?
//no coffee

mikey1

is that a 100% guarantee that his tensioner will not fail for another 100,000 miles?....no its not....how can somebody make a guarantee like that without even seeing the part in question?

even seeing the part wouldnt matter.....nobody can guarantee a tensioner will last over 200,000 miles....sorry, not possible....no money has been saved yet until the engine is run till its next timing belt change....therefore i will stick with my original comment, yet to be determined

if the tensioner lasts another 100,000 miles then yes, he saved him money.....however, if it fails, he has cost him thousands of dollars