Misbah

Hi everyone,

After following DIY's by BlueEM2, xRiCeBoYx, creaker2, reddawnman, and Grey, and scouring the haynes and honda service manual, I successfully pulled my head. Big thanks to their efforts.

I went in mainly for a timing belt change, along with a new water pump, tensioner, and drive belts. I then decided I should do the valve adjustment while I'm at it. Then I just went ahead and pulled the head so I could do the intake/exhaust manifold and head gaskets. They didn't need to be done, but I figured this is probably the first and last time I'll ever have it opened up this much so why not. I also picked up a new crankshaft pully/harmonic balancer and crankshaft and camshaft oil seals. I picked up some oem ngk plugs, new head bolts, and since I try to do one performance mod for every major maintenance work I do, I got an AEM short ram, used, for 50, and just got a new dryflow filter for it. My car has about 110k on it, and my goal here is to give it its second wind, restore some lost mpg, and make it run smooth for another 110k.

I found the procedure to be not too bad. The right tools help a lot. Some of the parts they mentioned to be difficult, I found easy; conversely some of the parts they just breezed through in the instructions, I found ridiculously frustrating. How in gods name is anything other than a midget supposed to be able to take off that rear center intake manifold bolt?!?!?!

Anyways, most of my performance mods are not performance related. The intake is the only 'performance' bolt on I have now. Everything else has gone into the suspension. She's not fast, and she's actually pretty ugly now, but she's fun as hell to drive! I feel like a cart racer when I'm among the roaming bumbling swaying SUV's that crowd the highways in Houston.

With that in mind, I now have 2 questions.

1) Now that the head is off, my pistons are pretty dirty. carbon build up, bits n pieces of RTV sealant I think that fell off when I pulled the head, n just debris. How can I clean the piston domes while they're still in the car?

I heard a soft wire brush and a mild solvent and a vacuum cleaner to suck up whatever comes loose. rotate the crank till the cylinder you're cleaning is halfway down the sleeve, pour in some solvent, scrub with a soft cloth n wire brush, soak up the solvent, suck out the debris, polish with a cloth. Are there any other better methods you guys recommend? I'm skeptical about pouring solvent on it, because what if it slowly goes down the side skirts and eats away at a rubber bushing or bearing or seal or gasket or something? Also worried that the loosened debris may get in the rings, and scar the cylinder walls. What's the best way to go about it? Also, I need to clean out the water jacket, because (something not mentioned in the DIY) when I lifted the head of, a bunch of oil poured out, and some dripped into the water jacket around the sleeves where only coolant should flow. I imagine I should try to get out as much as possible even though I'll be doing a coolant flush on reassembly. I figured I should clean out the coolant area first, then mask it off, and then clean the pistons. Any advice would be great.

2) Now that the head is off, and keeping in mind I'm going for longevity and smooth operation, not performance, what should I have done to it?

I figured the basics: Tell them to check the deck, make sure its flat n mill it if necessary. Do a pressure test on it . I'm having it sonic cleaned at SSA in Houston. I ordered the cylinder head gasket set so I'll replace the spark plug tube seals and the intake/exhaust valve seals, and the camshaft pulley seal after it comes back from cleaning. But im wondering what else I should ask SSA to do and what parts are worth changing to get another 100k of smooth running out of it? I though springs might be good, since their memory is probably fatigued. Valve springs and the rocker arm springs. Necessary? or waste of money? I heard a port job is not necessary if you're not looking for power gains, but that polishing the intake and exhaust runners will help with smoother feeling operation and possibly better MPG. I don't think I need or want a valve job, but should the valve seats be reground against the valves to ensure proper seal and fitment? What things are unnecessary to do, like do I have to change the valve guides, injector tubes, etc? I figured the most would be just replacing the rocker arm springs, valve springs, and that's it. I'm just kind of lost with what I should be looking at and requesting to be fixed here. Because at first the guy tried to sell me a 650 dolla rebuild job. I don't need or want all that. I'm looking for the cheapest path back to OEM specs, but I'm willing to replace parts that don't cost too much and will make the valve train 'feel' new again. Help please!

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Hey! Glad the DIY's helped. Hearing that people are using them makes it all worthwhile!

To answer your questions:

1. Slight amount of buildups on pistons shouldn't really affect anything. My pistons were pretty dark and such but I left them alone. The last thing you want is to get something into the cylinder that will cause the cylinders to scar. Scarring = big problems. I vote leave it alone unless your actually removing the piston from the block.

2. Get the head thoroughly inspected and they will let you know if anything needs to be replaced. I wouldn't be changing parts on the head that don't need to be done. A valve lash adjustment is a good thing to do. That's about it. Sometimes things are better left alone if they aren't broken!!! You might cause more trouble than leaving it be. A good shop will disassemble the head, check the valves, springs, cams etc. and tell you if they are worn.

maxtierney

iTrader: (5)

When I had my old Toyota Tercel in Hawaii, I used a Dremel with a mild abrasive rubber bullet tip to clean up the carbon build-up on the piston tops. I used an acid brush, isopropyl alcohol and a shop vac to clean up after myself. That was my ghetto way of cleaning. I really can't endorse this method, but it worked for me. My Tercel was an Island Beater, not my A-Game car.

I do agree with Blue. As for the head, Dude... you're geting it cleaned and milled anyways. You might as well ask the shop to test it out. Not a good time to skimp now. You may be able to get a better price and opt out of a few things, but look at it this way... You're talking about $650 spread out over the next 110K miles. How often do you remove the head? It's like skimping on a clutch replacement. Re-using the throwout bearing if it looks good, or not resurfacing the flywheel, because it's not glazed or unbalanced. I know money is tight, and you gotta make do with the bare minimum sometimes. If the shop is reputable and honest, I'd go with what they recommend. If you want to save a few bucks. Have the shop print you out a list of parts required, and source them out yourself or do some of the work yourself. Good luck.

Misbah

I appreciate the help guys. I went ahead and dropped off the head at Scroggins Machine in Houston - great place if anyone in the Houston/Metro area is looking for an honest machine shop.

They did a basic valve job/seat regrind, resurfacing, crack test, replaced all the valve guides, 1 burnt exhaust valve, and did the valve lash adjustment and changed the valve seals, cam pulley seal and rear cam plug seal and did a great job cleaning it up for 370 including taxes & fees and stuff. Head looks great. Gonna start reassembly tonight!

Glad I didn't skimp on it. Hope it runs smooth!

Also, I took a scotch guard pad and some mile solvent to the piston domes and a shop vac. It's not shiny clean, but it got out most of the flakes and loose stuff, good enough for me.

I was hoping this would be the last major/invasive kind of procedure I would have to do, and the rest would just be small easy bolt on stuff or simple electrical stuff. I'm due for a clutch change. I knew this from before hand but I never read the instructions until now... Looks like I have one more big job to go. What a PITA! It seems even more difficult than pulling the head!

Jim_Vanzant

I have been using the same DIYs, for the same job, and I am at the same question. I won't ask it because it was answered here. A big thanks to BlueEM2, xRiCeBoYx, creaker2, and reddawnman from me too for the extremely valuable (literally) information. I estimate at least an $800.00 savings compared to what a shop would charge, and probably more like $1,000.00-$1,100.00.

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

To clean the piston dome heads, I used Marvel Mystery Oil, a few low-lint/lint free rags, and some elbow grease. Cleaned off those suckers pretty well. Got the idea from an old school muscle tuner at my machine shop. He said if there's any stubborn buildup, use that oil and rub it with an old copper penny. Like, a pre-1980's one when they still used like 95% copper. It's a softer metal so it shouldn't do any damage.

Also, while you have the head off, definitely get that thing to a machine shop to check for squareness. Wouldn't hurt to check the block, too, but removing that is a bit more intrusive. While you have the head at the machine shop, bring in the valves you're gonna use and have them check the valve guides.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Glad people are still getting use out of that information. I wish I could have finished the DIY but unfortunately life is in the way of that

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

I hear you on that, Tom. You saw the damage pics on fb.. I'd love to tear her apart, but right now, I'm cramming for finals...

[threadjack]Anyone an expert on General Biology 2 (basics of evolution/sepciation, taxonomy, fungi, plants, or animal zoology), Cell Physiology, Genetics, or Statistics? And if so, would you be willing to put on a "me" mask to take my finals for me?[/threadjack]

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Your thread jacking ways will never change! I'll take the test for you.. but you will be doing it again shortly after hahaha.

Jim_Vanzant

I dropped off the head today and told them to give it the full treatment (I don't want to have to be pulling it off again in 2 or 3,000 miles for something else that could be addressed now. The quote he gave me was $230 for everything. I learned while talking to him that the adjustments would have to take place after I reinstalled it. I have found a good thread for that here too. I will be looking into that Mystery Oil. Thanks again. Sorry I can't help with your finals, I barely made it out of high school myself. lol

ezone

My little sister might have (several years ago). She was good at that stuff.

She's a licensed Pharmacist in a real hospital now.

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

What adjustments are you talking about? Like valve lash? If so, yeah, that's done after reassembly. Checking the valve guides, however, not so much. Also, just out of curiosity, what's that $230 include?


Funny you should mention pharmacist.. Getting my pharmacy doctorate is my ultimate goal. Just gotta finish undergrad then get into pharmacy school.

Jim_Vanzant

Yes, lash adjustments. I forgot to mention that I broke off a spark plug while trying to get them out. They will be removing the piece that I left behind, checking and if required machining the surface, replacing the seals, pressure test, and cleaning. I am comfortable with the work I've done so far, and I have enough sense and experience working on vehicles that I'm sure I can put it back together, but I have never worked on a head so I can't recall if there is something I am leaving out. I talked to the shop, before I broke the plug, they said they would clean it for $30, check the surface for free, and machine it, if needed for $35, if that helps for a reference point.

ezone

Suck all the liquid out of all 10 head bolt holes in the block....before you set the head back on it.


Just a thought, because so many people seem to overlook that one. You can crack the block by hydraulic fracturing if you leave liquid in the holes.

johndeerebones

On an over head cam head you can adjust the lash while the heads off it you so desire as long as the cam is on. Ezone is right on, either air hose em out, (messy) or fashion a shop vac can to catch the junk before the vacuum and use it.

Jim_Vanzant

Thanks ezone. That is one tip I had picked up from this forum already, but it is appreciated just the same. I have learned so much here in just a few weeks.