gearbox

iTrader: (95)

automatic trans drain plug washer, scroll down a bit to see it

http://www.handa-accessories.com/civmaint01.html

Civicnoobie

ok ill remember to get a new sealing washer from honda on the 4th drain and fill. Ill just have to go do this at the church empty parking lot since i dont have a garage.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

just make sure the car is on flat and smooth ground before jacking it up. no rough rocky cement or anything. and try to do it without jacking up the car. unless the ride is lowered, it should be easy.

Civicnoobie

ill try getting the bolt off without jacking the car, i know exactly where the bolt is, ill just have to see if itll be easier to get to it from the passenger side or front bumper. If not i could always drive it up a parking lot speed bump....that should give enough clearance.

Civicnoobie

But is it normal for our trans to be pausing/delaying like that? If it is, why doesnt it happen on all the gears?

Well i did 2 drain and fills yesterday with the maxlife, not sure how much time i should allow to see any improvements. I drove about 80km after doing the first drain. After i did the 2nd drain and fill last night, still noticed it flaring from 3-4, 200rpm. Pretty ****** PISSED OFF to say the least!!! Honestly, im not getting my hopes up and this $ on maxlife and doing the drain and fills could be just a total waste for me. But i need to find out how much time i should allow.

I still have enough to do a 3rd drain and fill but ill wait a couple weeks cause want it to mix in really well. Im just reading over GB past comments on his experience with maxlife, i remember he said in one post that overtime he noticed certain improvements but still trying to find it to reread it.

Worse comes to worst if maxlife doesnt fix the flare then i guess ill have to shift into 4th every single ****** time going well under 2500rpms. And ill have to do this for the rest of my life driving this piece of ****. I mean right now, and for the past year driving this car...every time i drive it, every time it shifts my eyes are always on the RPM gauge making sure it shifts right. Half of the time my eyes are on the road, the other half on the RPM gauge. This should not be what owning and driving a car should be about.

im gonna go driving tonight for a bit and take some videos for you folks. Im just waiting for it to get dark cause its a lot easier to see the RPM gauge with no sun glaring.

A few things i was told to look into

1) Go to honda and get them to reflash my Power control module

2) Test my TPS again

3) Check to see if fuel filter is clogged

4) Try cleaning the MAF sensor, whatever MAF is.

Shift-E

Do all the drain in fills as soon as possible and get the old stuff out. How much maxlife did you buy? I bought a case (12 bottle) and used it all when switching (so 4 times)

MindBomber

It's normal, both Shift-E and I are telling you that man, that little pause won't go away if you change the transmission fluid to something engineered by Soichiro Honda himself. You need to stop worrying, accept that it's normal, and move on with your life and start enjoying the ownership of your car. I just got back from a nice drive and have a huge smile on my face, that's what owning a car is all about.

I could try explaining why it has that pause to you, but seriously, I could drive to your house and disassemble a transmission in front of you and you probably wouldn't understand, never mind explaining it to you here. An automatic transmission makes the inner workings of an engine seem like child's play. Shift-E managed over 300k kilometers with his trans, and it was likely poorly maintained and it was the earlier inferior design.

Chill out!

Focusing on the trans is only going to make your issues worse, so instead, try to focus on that sick audio system and your wheels and enjoy them.

Don't have any of that work done, you're just throwing money away.

Civicnoobie

If you dont mind and have time, I wouldnt mind hearing how the pause works and all. Thats if you dont mind. Im still learning and the more i can learn the better. If youre willing to, I will give a big TIA.


I bought two 5L jugs and have about 4L left.

Shift-E

The bottles i got were 1 U.S. QT (about 1 liter) and I used (well my mech used, but i bought the case and gave it to him) 12 bottles, so about 12 liters. Double what you've used so far.

lazlong

Actually, I see a young guy with a beemer and automatically think "douche".

hehe, couldn't resist

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

you are already slipping, trying to expend on stuff yah don't need to again

Civicnoobie

Not saying i was gonna do those but just wanted to bring it up. Already slipping? But the 200rpm flare im getting is compleltely normal according to MB here.

SpeedDownZone

I think he is using slipping as a slang. So your already messing up by going to fix all does other possibly non existing issues.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

okay first off, having the trans "pause" for a second between gears is normal and will happen on any auto shifting between any gear. except for the CVT auto trans which is belt driven. and if youve ever been in one of these cars, you can hardly tell when it shifts. near instant and it feels like you have one really long gear. it is cool but at the same time a bit strange to get used to.

there are also a few issues with 01-05 trans that are normal but not common when comparing to other auto trans in different cars. the first is if you accelerate at low throttle with the car in D (D4), as soon as the car shifts into third, it will start to bog down and then after driving a bit more, you will feel the torque converter lock out. very strange and i usually keep the car in D3 in the city to avoid this. not to mention, you have almost no power in D with this car so you will have to keep downshifting to drive (and thats bad because it generates heat each time). the other issue is if you are driving above 25mph and you brake down to about 10-15mph, then press the gas again you will get a loud bang and the car will shake going into gear. the best way to aviod this is either come to a stop or press the gas very slowly til it gets back in gear.

finally, the maxlife takes time to work. i would give it a good 2 months to see a difference with slipping (when the car revs up instead of shifting to the next gear). the smooth shifting you should notice but it will be better after 4x drain and fills. no need to wait more than one driving cycle for each drain and fill. doing 1x gives you 50% old fluid left. 2x gives you 25% old fluid, 3x gives you 12% old fluid, and 4x gives you 6% old fluid. after the fourth drain and fill, you will only have about 1/2 qt of old fluid left in the trans which is good enough.

as for air bubbles in the fluid, i think its normal. i see them in mine when i check the level, and the trans does have open air pockets so air can get in when fluid is pushed thru very small spaces and gears.

MindBomber

Yes, it's not a slip, that explanation simply does not make sense; the issue is in the valve body. If it were a slip, then it would be impossible for me to hold the rpms at a certain point and achieve a smooth shift. If the clutch packs were glazed over by the fluid it would be inconsistent, and if they were slipping due to heavy wear then it would worsen rapidly since they would be close to bare metal already at that point. The valve body being the source of the issue is also consistent with improvements being seen from changing fluids and it the issue being concentrated on one gear change.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

well yes technically i should use the right word. all auto trans will slip normally when changing gears otherwise it would be a very rough ride when the car would buck each time. flare or rpm rev is not normal when shifting because it means the clutch disks are not able to grab each other as well as when new (either loss of friction material, partial hydraulic pressure loss if the seals are leaking like when cold, etc).

MindBomber

Yea, they're designed to slip from the factory a tiny bit to smooth out the shifts, since most consumers who buy automatics don't even want to know it's changing gears. The smoother the transition, the more quickly the clutch packs will wear out though, so it's a balance between comfort and reliability. Slip is accurate enough when we describe it to most people, it's usually all I bother with saying.

What I think is happening is the valves to engage the third gear is slow, it's a seal loosing pressure or insufficient flow for one reason or another in a line. When the pressure to release second gear is hit, the third gear engagement doesn't have it yet, so the transmission goes into neutral for a second, the rpms increase and that increases the pressure just enough to engage third. Maxlife improves the flow either through cleaning out the lines or flowing better, possibly a combination of the two, and allows third gear pressure to build more quickly. That explanation also makes sense for those of us who hold it at a certain rpm for a second and achieve smooth shifts, because that gives time for the pressure to build up more gradually.

I could be completely wrong, I'm not a mechanic or a transmission expert, but I'm pretty smart and have a basic enough understanding of transmissions to develop that theory, which I believe all the evidence supports.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

its partly that, and also partly the secondary clutch pack wearing out faster than it should due to being defective. if the 2ndary clutch pack was the same as the rest of em, there would be far fewer issues on these trans.

MindBomber

Yeah, I agree there's something up with the secondary clutch pack, has anyone ever measured an oem one to see if it's has less clutch material on it?

That would tell us if it's the clutch pack is straight up to thin or if the clutch is engaging softly and having material ground away before grabbing the gear.

The design of that clutch itself has nothing to do with day to day driving symptoms though, imo. That only causes the premature failure that owners have experienced to various degrees, some transmissions failed at 30k miles, but shift-e made it over 300k km and I know of an 05 em2 that made it to 350k miles on one trans. The driver has a lot to do with how long it lasts..

Civicnoobie

I think that sounds about right. I notice my trans shifts pretty hard compared to my old one especially when cold but no slip when cold on any gears. But i also stay under 2000rpm for the first 5-10mins driving each time so that might explain it too. I dont like how i back out and from what i notice every one on my street likes to start their car (even in -25 weather and the car not plugged in), back out, and they floor it, pedal to the metal from a cold start. Whereas me, i tend to let it sit in D for a min or two (depending how cold it is) before i drive. Then they get mad when theyre behind me cause im not flooring it on a quiet residental street.

Shift E said his first ATF change on his 01 trans was just before the 300k km mark. Im shocked the thing lasted that long without a single change. And he drives it hard! When he changed it at 300k that was its very first drain and fill and it killed it, probably cause the old atf was so black.


Oh the valve body. Interesting. So that would explain why GB has seen improvements with maxlife overtime.

Civicnoobie

I never ever accelerate heavy from a stop, even on a downhill and especially not on a uphill. When I have to slow down i always gently accelerate back up so i dont get the bucking. What i notice is when you accelerate from a stop, you will feel the car just chug forward and then it all of a sudden gets this boost, its noticable and not as smooth like on other cars. With mine though, i dont feel the boost until a sec or two after accelerating. I think thats normal.

What i really dont like is when im on a faster freeway like 80-90km limit, and stop at a light. Then after, everyone is expected to pretty much floor it, going from a stop to the 80-90km/hr reasonably quick! I dont care and i will not floor it like others... so i just go about my business accelerating how i normally do and then get up to speed a bit later than everyone else. I sometimes get someone whos behind me a bit antzy but i dont care...my car is much more important than them. Plus whats the hurry, geez.

MindBomber

Exactly.

A clutch can develop a coating over it like black ice on asphalt if the fluid isn't performing properly, causing slips, but I would expect that coating to dissolve almost immediately with a fluid change. If it's in the valve body however, well it takes time to slowly get cleaned out by the good fluid...

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

if you go above 3k rpms when the engine is cold you will destroy everything on any car fairly quickly. stupidity does not excuse it lol. they will find out real quick why this is a bad idea. if you drive in the right lane, you have no problems going slow. you can drive below the speed limit if you feel like it. if other cars are too lazy to move over, they deserve to go slow. let them waste their gas and wear out their car faster, i just laugh.

mindbomber, the only member i know that actually took the trans apart is here, and he commented about the 2nd clutch pack being so weak compared to the others that were fine. i dont see how anything except a material defect would explain this. otherwise all the other discs would be bad also.

https://www.civicforums.com/forums/1...uild-pics.html

another issue is the loss of pressure when trans is cold, due to shrunken seals. the seals are plain old rubber and the fluid just eats them up over time, just as it does the ATF dipstick rubber and shrinks it. same thing happens inside the trans and you can have slipping from that too until the trans warms up and the seals expand and start to work properly. this is more of a problem for all sorts of trans, not just ours. if it wasnt for that clutch disc wearing out so fast, these trans may still slip a bit from the other "normal" problems of an old trans, but it would still drive and work fine for a long time. hint: like older hondas lol

Civicnoobie

Oh ok, so ill have to allow time for the maxlife to work. I didnt know atf gets inside the valves, thought only the trans and torque conv.

Ya every morning i can hear cars flooring it from inside my house. Theres a lot of nice cars in my area but most of them drive them like race cars.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

he means the valve body of the transmission. completely separate from the engine. trans is a million times more complicated with lots of gears, tiny passages, and all sorts of parts that can get stuck. its really a wonder they work as well as they do. and yes the maxlife needs time to work, it will not do anything overnight other than improve shifting smoothness (if you do at least 3x drain and fills to get most of the old fluid out). when i started using lc20/fp60 additives in oil and gas, it took a few months to start seeing and feeling a difference. the way most of these things work is long term.

lazlong

He means the valves in the tranny.



When I worked at the Infiniti dealer just about every car off the lot came in for a new engine or tranny under warranty because people think if you buy a $50,000 vehicle you can just rag the hell out of it and it won't break. You gotta remember that the majority of people you meet are spoiled idiots.

Civicnoobie

Ill give it time to work. What is lc20? Can put in gas tank?


Or when they lease. I know some people who lease a new car every 2years and drive the car into the ground and dont do any maintenance on it other than oil changes.

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

sorry, it slipped from my mouth :P

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

www.lubecontrol.com

LC20 - engine oil additive (3.5 oz added with new oil change, then 1 oz every 1k miles and the oil will last 10k miles minimum). you can add 1 oz to the trans fluid also. this is mainly an oil stabilizer but it also slowly cleans out the engine and trans by dissolving sludge and deposits.

FP-PLUS - gas additive (1 oz in the gas tank for every 10 gallons of fuel). keeps fuel system clean and increases mpg.

Civicnoobie

Thanks too bad cant buy that in stores as i have been looking for a good engine and fuel injector cleaner that actually works. The engine cleaning isnt a big deal but cleaning the fuel injectors i would like cause the fuel filter has never been replaced yet.