dloiacono

Hi All-

Based on incredible luck with two previous Civics, I went ahead and purchased a 2001 without doing any research. Of course, after the purchase, I stumbled upon all the automatic transmission horror stories.

My questions: are all 2001 automatic transmissions really doomed to fail? Or is this a matter of a higher than normal failure rate for Honda, which is usually very low? For example, are we talking 2% failure rate for 2001 when other years they were around 0.25%? Or are we talking 20% overall failure? I can't find actual statistics anywhere. I would love to hear from any 2001 owners with high mileage and no issues.

My car has 97k miles and I see none of the warning signs. I wonder if it's worth taking a loss and getting rid of it while it's still fine, or keep it and meticulously change the tranny fluid every 10k or so with ATF-Z1 (I read a detailed article that said it was an overheating problem leading to premature fluid failure). I was hoping to get another 100k miles (fairly trouble free) out of this car (which I have easily exceeded with previous Civics in the past).

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks in Advance,
Dominick

7genmarathon

iTrader: (1)

Just take easy when shifting. I don't ever exceed 3000rpm unless getting on the freeway from an on-ramp. Don't let a teen looking for a thrill drive the car into the ground. I got 149,000 miles on mine with the new tranny oil made by honda. My car vibrates when in R, but that's not a tranny issue.

Shift-E

I have about 300,000 km on mine so about 180/190k miles i think, 2001 auto. The only problem i have is slight slipping when gears change while it's cold. After it warms up it's fine.

sl33pyriceboi

iTrader: (3)

my friend has an 03 auto LX.

never warms up his car, guns it right out of the parking space, always has over due oil changes... yet, he's got 170k+ without any problems. suspension still in tact, tranny is smooth, drives straight...etc

and this guy seriously has a heavy *** lead foot and floors it everywhere.


so lesson is, it is just the luck of the draw. most the people who complain on here are people who HAVE had problems and search for help. thats why it looks so common.

but there are countless (hundreds of thousands) civic owners who dont even have tranny problems... and dont come on a forum to bitch and complain. =p

dloiacono

Thanks for everyone's replies. They reflect my own experience, not just with cars. I'm a QA engineer and see the fallout of faulty design every day. Sometimes you swear the sky is falling based on how loud (and how many) complaints are coming in, but when you plug in the numbers the data usually looks significantly better than the complainers are portraying the problem to be.

I noticed on the Honda press release where they extended the automatic transmission warranty for 2000-2001 Accords, Oddyseys, and Preludes, and some Acura TL's, that the defect rate was about 2%. I have to assume the Civic rate was below that, or they would have included the Civic as well. While 2% isn't great (especially if you're the 1 person in 50 that gets screwed), it certainly doesn't reflect the level of complaints that we read about.

Thanks again everyone.

Shift-E

Sleepy makes a good point, but he mentioned his friend with an 03. Most of the complains were from 01 and 02 in that order. 03 had like nothing.

sl33pyriceboi

iTrader: (3)

yes, specifically the V6 accord J30 motor (many TL and oddyseys use the same motor).

there was a really high transmission failure rate that they had a recall on 98-01 transmissions.

i use to own a V6 accord, so thats how i know.

green01civic

I think you need to get the junk ATF-Z1 out of there and replace it with Honda ATF-DW1 (drain and fill, drive it around and then do another). It's full synthetic so should not break down prematurely. (They don't make Z1 anymore, so not like you will end up with much choice in the matter).

richs1000

What? No more Z-1 for real? So i assume they made a better fluid and it is approved for our cars?

green01civic

Indeed they did, the ATF-DW1 is mixable with Z1 in any amount or ratio, and is compatible with transmissions that call for Z1. I'm happy with it, as it's superior to the old Z1!

richs1000

Do you know what makes it so much better than z-1?

7genmarathon

iTrader: (1)

The reason DW1 is better than Z1 most easily put is that Z1 is no longer being produced making DW1 are only option from Honda Corp.

green01civic

Fully synthetic, so it resists breakdown and oxidization.
Lower viscosity, so it will improve fuel economy.
Improved shifting quality has been reported (though it may go back to normal, but I've noticed smoother shifts... or perhaps you get used to it after awhile).

Yes it's all they make now so you have no choice, but it is indeed an improvement over the old Z1 fluid.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

i went with valvoline maxlife a few days ago and like it better than z1. wish i wouldve switched earlier. ive been finding out the z1 isnt as great as everyone thinks. and dw1 has no testing or real world use in older trans. who knows what can happen. the maxlife has been tested by many people in honda trans and valvoline also states it is a replacement for z1.

Shift-E

Let us know how it holds up in the next few weeks! The first couple day always feel good :/

richs1000

Gearbox,

Do you have any real facts about why one is better than the other?

sl33pyriceboi

iTrader: (3)

his butt dyno is never wrong. its honda certified man.

green01civic

I'm happy to see you've switched off of Z1 and like it! Did it help with shifting or slipping?

Civicnoobie

I have a question.

Whats the best most proper way to accerlate up a steep hill, where its not a heavy load on the trans?


I could be wrong but isnt it bad for the engine to not rev it up to 4000 or 5000rpm every now and then especially going up hills. I hear its harder going up a steep hill doing a slower speed at a lower RPM than faster speed at higher RPM.

7genmarathon

iTrader: (1)

Its hard on the transmission. I knew a guy whose transmission died going up a hill hauling cattle..aka a HEAVY LOAD. Its very bad on a transmission to go up those hills. The best thing you can do is build a fire before you get to the hill and that momentum will ease the hill on you trans. The engine can handle hills and high rpms..Its the trans that you should be concerned about.

Higher RPMS=more torque. More torque=more ponies to climb the hill.

Civicnoobie

I know civics arent very strong to climb hills but didnt know it was actually bad for the trans. Now i know why my father always refuses to go up steep hills, he says its bad for the trans. Sounds like ill be avoiding the super steep hills as much as i can. I rarely take em anyways, but today was brutal on that 30min drive!

I could be wrong but isnt D3 for steep hills where it keeps the car in the first 3 gears? And i hear turning cruise control off is better as it keeps the rpms lower. totally news to me.

MelJ

The car won't shift past 3rd gear. You'd be better off using D2 if it's a hill. It's the load that you need to worry about, like 7gen had said earlier.

Shift-E

D3 is for inner city driving. Its so the car doesn't shift into 4th cuz most likely you'll be travelling about 50 kmph, and it's around there that the car likes to shift up since the revs start to build.

It can also be used to climb hills easier since the RPM's will rise without the car shifting up (cuz once it shifts up the RPM's will drop). Some people even go as far as to use D2.

7genmarathon

iTrader: (1)

oh haha I didn't finish my story in my post above. Anyways this guy driving the load of cattle tranny died while climbing it. Needless to say he rolled back down the hill and completely blew his rear main seal to shreds after getting it looked at. This was a dually Dodge ram. We find out later his engine was is perfect condition, but the tranny just held him back. That's why tranny's are very important they gotta turn that mechanical energy into the driveshaft to get the wheels a' turnin.

Civicnoobie

Well in my car my trunk is empty and i have a 20lb sub in the backseat and whole 6'2 115lbs of me.

sl33pyriceboi

iTrader: (3)

actually u guys got it backward.

the lower gears D2, D3...etc is made for driving DOWN HILL and controlling ur speed DOWN HILL so you wont blow our ur pads/rotors (wrap then or cause brake failure due to brake fade).

if you are driving up hill, ur engine will decide which gear is best depending on the position of ur gas pedal. if u need more power, and the power ban allows for it, ur car will automatically drop a gear in order for ur RPMs to be in a higher range to take advantage of a higher power band.

so all you need to do is to step gas a lil harder. and it will do it automatically. no need to stress ur engine out. lol user error.

but now there are exceptions to everything. if u are at the point of optimal shifting 3rd and 4th (given speed and acceleration of the pedal), and u dont want ur car to keep shifting back and forward, then that would be the only time u put it in D3

if you guys DD with a manual you'd understand...especially if u take it up to the canyons a lot.



and just for the reference:
what those manual levels do, is lock it out at a certain gear. for example D2 will allow ur car to shift 1st to 2nd gear ONLY.

D3 will allow ur car to shift 1st to 2nd to 3rd. it locks out at 3rd gear.

D4 obviously will go all the way to 4th gear.

7genmarathon

iTrader: (1)

^that's why I let regular ole "D" do the job every time.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

i always shift my auto manually. leaving it in d would never work for me since it would be shifting all over the place every few seconds and heating up the trans (bad). each shift is more heat. usually in the city i keep it in d3 but when i know i will be going 15-25 mph up and down i lock it in 2. im very careful so that im not actually making the trans shift manually, only holding gears so it doesnt shift out when it feels like it lol. if i know there is a flat stretch of road i let it shift to 4th.

as for the maxlife atf, after about a week it has settled into "old used" mode already and is back to the same as z1 in terms of having the usual shift lag going from R to D and the rough downshift to 1st when coming to a stop. basically its the same as z1 from what i can tell. the only thing i cant tell is if it helped with the slipping since its so hot here all the time and it wouldnt slip with z1 either. 90F+ weather ftl. i read a ton of forum posts and experiences before deciding to switch. most users report it lasts longer than z1, but with how much cheaper it is i will prolly do a drain and fill every 6 months or so to keep it new. this may also be in my head, but the car does seem to be a bit less held back when coasting down hills. kinda like when i switched to synthetic motor oil. it didnt make the car any faster, but you could feel the engine was looser with less friction. maybe the maxlife did something similar to the trans since it is semi-syn. not sure what the z1 is but there is quite a bit of hate for it lol.