7genmarathon

iTrader: (1)

Whats up forum. I got a few questions for yall, if you dont mind

I went to the dealership today and picked up some gaskets, new studs/nuts, and some tranny fluid. I searched around here a lil bit and it seems owners prefer ATF-Z1. I told the parts guy what I wanted and showed him a picture(yeah, visual learner...) of the bottle of tranny fluid. After getting home i noticed the bottle is labeled "ATF DW-1"..doh.

So I did some more reseach and its a new formula for "newer Honda vehicles" to replace ATF-Z1.

My question is would it bother the tranny if I put it in? The fluid in it now is ATF-Z1. I have no tranny problems at all thankfully(knock on wood). Last time it was changed was Aug/Sep 2008.

Its been debated on the forums but since I got it front of me, I would hate to have to go back to switch out what I got. But if neccesary I will.

lazlong

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but, I think that's the new Honda ATF.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

stick with z1 unless you have a 2011+ civic

7genmarathon

iTrader: (1)

I'll attempt to swap em, idk what their return policy is on that. Caps are still sealed. The dealership is gonna throw a fit I bet, hehe. Im guessing they should have Z1 in stock and not have it phased out totally right?

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

well its confirmed, honda service bulletin says the z1 will eventually be phased out and dw1 will be the only fluid they carry. so i guess it depends on the dealer and how much stock they have. even handaaccessories.com stopped carrying it. maybe if us old guys just do one drain and fill at a time, it wont be a big shock to the trans switching to dw1.

CraigW

iTrader: (1)

Scares me... I don't want the new fluid. I want to keep using Z1, it worked just fine in my 05. Surely do not want to be Honda's guinea pig with my 2010 Civic.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

i would be much more confident putting it in a 2010 (or even a 2006) than i would a 2002 with slipping issues already lol. if the dw1 is truly a full synthetic, i have a feeling big problems are in my future. everywhere i read about older honda trans switching from z1 to a "better" full syn auto trans fluid like amsoil or mobil has destroyed the trans pretty quick. judging from what they say about better cold performance, it seems the dw1 is also a thinner oil, kinda how they went from 5w30 to 5w20 for no reason in the engine. if thats true, say goodbye to any friction between the clutch plates.

on a side note, anyone notice the new "honda" oil is out also? synthetic blend kendall.

7genmarathon

iTrader: (1)

I went dealership to swap out the wrong aT fluid on Monday only to have them tell me they didnt have it in stock. They phased it out at completely and ran out one month and a half ago. I went ahead and the dumped 3qts in. I made a bigass mess, my used oil canister was too round and didnt catch a drop when draining!

^^Second confirmation lol

lazlong

I would have had them put in writing that this stuff is ok to put in a vehicle that doesn't call for it- per manufacturer. Then in a year when your tranny blows you can at least sue 'cause you know they're gonna try and get out of paying for your tranny.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

any difference in how the trans is shifting?

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

if you go to handa under maint items, there is the honda service announcement about the new fluid and how its being replaced and safe to use in all older hondas. and yeah you can sue, but you already know the standard response "trans failed from normal wear and tear over a certain mileage" so they are covered for 2005 and older vehicles failing since theyre so old to begin with.

lazlong

^^ Ah, I see.

Number 1 rule of business-CYA. lol

7genmarathon

iTrader: (1)

So far it shifts better than before, but its been due for a change. Inconclusive. I'll get a better idea tommorow when I hit the road-80miler. I was surprised that I didnt see any debris on the magnetic bolt.

Cowboys Stadium seating lawsuit would be the best way to stick it to honda transmissions. Power to the people!

CraigW

iTrader: (1)

Not looking good for Z1... looks like 2011 may be it. Not sure what to do at this point I will be doing my 1st drain and refill at 25k miles, may just go ahead and go with DW-1 while I still have a powertrain warranty.
If Z1 is gone in 2011...there will be no choice but to switch over.

kbook

well gearbox, I just went to the dealer to find Z1s but they do not have them. So I have no choice but to try it then and yes, based on the spec the DW1 is thinner than Z1. They also stated about fuel efficiency also. I just hope that the additives package will do the job. I just don't trust Amsoil ATF but everyone seems to have different opinions on Amsoil ATF also.

I have never used Mobil ATF before. Here's I attached a picture for u guys to see the CRV's ATF.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

The top is the color of the fresh DW1, the bottom is the color of the 30k Z1

7genmarathon

iTrader: (1)

^Thats what it looked like. Typical. your ATF looks browner than mine did when I changed it 2days ago.

After driving around today, listening, and feeling(lol) to my transmission im satisfied with how its shifting. I got a reallly smooth shift when waiting for the engine to warm up to shift into 4th gear. It felt good enough to make me smile when it happened if that helps.

Too Tall

I highly suspect the biggest problem with Honda automatic transmissions is the Z1 fluid breaks down relatively quickly and leaves a layer of varnish on the clutch plates and lots of contaminates floating around the transmission. Changing to a good synthetic fluid dissolves all the varnish so quickly the new fluid turns into sludge which kills the tranny very quickly.

When my wife's 07 Civic had 26,500 miles, I did 3 drain and refills with Z1 to get as much contaminates out of the transmission as possible. Then I did a single drain and refill with Amsoil. Drove 1000 miles and did a second drain and refill with Amsoil last weekend. I was rather surprised how dark the fluid looked even though I had put 7 qts of Z1 and 2 1/3 qts Amsoil through the tranny. That's 4 drain and refills. It looks clean on the dip stick, but I dipped out about 2 oz's in a clear glass to look at. It was just about as dark as the tranny fluid I drained out of my Nissan with 70,000 miles on Amsoil in the tranny.

Before I drained my tranny, I spoke with 2 different Honda dealers who said they only do one drain and refill when changing tranny fluid between 30,000 and 40,000 miles. That's a big mistake.

I have no idea how DW-1 will interact with Z1. I suspect the sooner you get the Z1 out, and do 4 or more drain and refills if your close to 30,000 on Z1, the better the tranny will be.

I also think getting the wheels off the ground and running through the gears after doing a drain and refill is important to make sure no air bubbles go through the tranny while trying to drive off the first time.

kbook

7genmarathon,
Yeah, I was surprise when I compare with the new ATF. But, I dumped out today already. I hope I will do two more if I have time and yes It doesn't shift hard or anything.

Too Tall,

hmm, The dealer probably follows the maintenance book but yes I think 1 time probably not enough.

MindBomber

It doesn't matter what fluid you run through a 7g auto-transmission, it won't re-engineer the internal design flaws, it's the engineering flaws that cause the transmissions to fail not the fluid. Case in point, later model Honda automatic transmissions have been lasting 300-400k+ miles without having breakdowns and are running Z-1.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

+1 our 92 accord is still shifitng like butter and its used all sorts of weird stuff like napa atf (not z1 approved), z1, lucas additive (who knows, and its prolly out by now), lc20 additive, etc. it just keeps on going. maybe 5 fluid changes its whole life and most within the past 2 yrs. they just dont build em like they used to. my friend with a 99 hx cvt beat the crap out of it daily and manual shifted and floored it but never had any issues.

7genmarathon

iTrader: (1)

From what I can tell it's more viscous than Z1. The question is, what will us Z1 fans do now that Honda doesn't stock it anymore. Private sellers will be pricey. I made the switch cause that's what I bought. I found this @ bob the oil guys site...

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...2144708&page=1

Too Tall

The newer auto trannys may not be as strong as the older ones. I do feel my 95 Civic was an overall stronger car than my 07. Perhaps the main flaw is Honda not offering a full synthetic auto tranny fluid to compensate for those "engineering flaws."

There are so many inconsistent and incomplete reports all over the internet about Honda's auto tranny failures, it is hard FOR ME to make any accurate conclusions. I think improper oil change intervals and procedures by dealers and home mechanics are a big part of the problem. Doing only one drain and refill of Z1 at 30,000 miles is a disaster waiting to happen.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

with older honda trans, 30k wouldve been no problem. 2001-2005 went to crap, then honda realized they screwed up huge and 2006-2010 they had to improve alot of the parts they cheaped on. still nowhere near the tanks of the 1980s and early 90s, those things kept going non stop 250k+ miles. usually the engine would develop issues before the trans.

CraigW

iTrader: (1)

There was certainly an issue on early 7th gens. Honda fixed it on the later 7th models, quietly, as to not stir up warranty issues (the powertrain warr was 36k until 06) I went with 25k service on my 05 and it has been fine... though I will be buying 3qts of ATF-Z1 for it before it is all gone.

The 5AT in the 8th gens seems like a well made unit (at least I hope so) I'm going with D&F of DW-1 at 25k & 50k and see how things go.

Too Tall

I hope you mean 3 drain and refills every 25,000 miles? Anything less leaves a lot of old oil behind.

MindBomber

^I would never flush an auto-trans, if your going to do more than one drain and fill it's best to wait at least one oil change in between changes.

CraigW

iTrader: (1)

On my 2010 I'm going with the standard single drain & refill with DW-1. Honda is quickly bailing on Z1 so I have no choice but to change. I will Still have a lot of powertrain warr left so lets try the new stuff out Honda.

On the daughters 05... it is pushing 130k+ and has only had single drain and refills of ATF-Z1 every 25k it's whole life. I plan on buying some Z1 to keep for it's next service.

danwat12345

For fellow transmission drain/fill DIY'ers,

I went into the Dick Hannah Honda dealer in Vancouver Washington today and it was $7 per quart of dw1 (good price i'd say), but they wanted $3 for a single automatic transmission washer! They don't have a pack.

Guess what. Went to Parkrose hardware. Found an exact match. "Oil Drain Plug Gaskets", class 202, "16955", 18mmx25.5mm. 42 cents each! Bought 3

Win

The guy at the desk didn't ask what year Civic I had and whether I had a manual or Auto tranny before giving me a washer. So, this washer should work for all Civics. But not guaranteed. I'll edit this post if I ever verify.