tehstriker88

ok so i have a 01 civic si, in coldish weather (like around +5 and below) for some reason when i try to start it the starter just spins, not even a kick, but for some odd reason when i plug in my block heater it fires up no prob, any ideas? it's not fuel pump, map is only when its running, i'm out of ideas
it may be a o2 or fuel sensor problem, but i'd like to make sure

seoul4korea

Wow that sounds so strange. Maybe the cold start sensor??? I'm not quite sure but i'll can try and brain storm.

04 Honda Civic

iTrader: (2)

You have a block heater? Sweet.

tehstriker88

so i've stumped even you guys

lowlife9

try switching to synthetic oil the viscosity stays the same no matter what temperature so no more hard starts in cold weather.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

maybe the starter is just worn? we had a guy come in once and he had the same problem. it wouldnt work in the truck (very cold winters below 0F), just spins, then he would bring it in the store and by the time someone strapped it to the test bench maybe 10 mins later, it warmed up and sure enough it tested good. he goes to install, wont work. he finally bought a new starter and problem solved. that may not be your problem, but it sounds similar. you may also want to take the starter apart and clean it up before just buying a new one. or even go for a used one in good condition. ive seen some for sale here and ebay too. if you bang on the starter with a mallet when it doesnt work, do you hear anything? or does it start the car?

pjb3

I'm confused. When it is cold does the starter spin but not turn the engine or does the starter turn the engine but the engine does not start?

tehstriker88

the starter spins the engine, it just doesn't fire and it is +5c and i'm already using synthetic 5w-20, i'll try the starter thing and let you know, i'll have to try it tomorrow, since i have to wait till my car cools off,

almost the exact problem: https://www.civicforums.com/forums/1...art-issue.html

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Do you have to leave the block heater plugged in for a while or just plug it in to start the car up?

tehstriker88

if i leave it unplugged overnight i have to plug it in for at least 20 min till it starts to fire, then another 20 before it will run,. (thats when it's -10c to -15c in the morning)

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Is your antifreeze freezing up??? that would definitely prevent the car from starting up, but the starter would still turn...

pjb3

If the starter is turning the engine then I doubt there is anything wrong with the starter.
I don't really have an answer but I would focus on the fuel system. You mention that as the block heater starts to work it starts to fire and after another 20 minutes will start. Electronics are usually all or nothing so if it starts to fire but does not run, that would indicate you have spark but the fuel is incorrect.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Let me elaborate on my previous post. if your antifreeze is freezing up (and it sounds like it is ), your mixture of antifreeze/water is incorrect, you have to flush the system. The starter is turning the engine, and the timing belt is trying to spin past a frozen water pump which cannot spin. So the timing belt either does not spin or chews the teeth off the timing belt. They sell testers to see if your antifreeze is up to snuff. I suggest you buy one and see if it's okay. It looks like a hand pump with a gauge on it!

Good luck.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

that answer makes the most sense so far. and the block heater replaces the coolant drain bolt in the cylinder head, to warm the coolant. even if the antifreeze mix is okay, it may just be too old and not as effective.

tehstriker88

that was one of the first things i looked at, i tested it in -22c weather it was fine. since antifreeze is somewhat cheap, i'll change it next weekend since i gots no $$$

pjb3

If that were the case the car would never start. You can't chew up the teeth on the timing belt or slip a couple of teeth and have the car start and run fine when the temperature is warmer. Also antifreeze does not lose it's effectiveness to prevent freezing over time. The reason antifreeze is replaced is usually because the corrosion additives wear out or it has been diluted by adding too much water.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

That's exactly what I said. His mix of water/coolant is incorrect, causing it to freeze up. If the frozen water pump is not allowing the timing belt to spin the car would not start until he plugged in the block heater for 20-30 minutes. There is a POTENTIAL to destroy the timing belt (which I have seen happen, if that happens yes your right the car would not start).

Needless to say I hope that's his problem because it's an easy fix

pjb3

If the the antifreeze solution had frozen solid so the water pump could not turn, then one of two things would happen, the belt would move but the water pump wouldn't or the belt doesn't move and the crankshaft pulley does. The act of cranking the engine would destroy the timing belt because either the belt slips relative to the water pump or crankshaft. If the belt doesn't spin as you suggest, then also the crankshaft is turned by the starter but the cam doesn't move and the cam is no longer in the correct position relative to the crankshaft. The bottom line is there is no way for a cogged belt to slip with out destroying itself and if somehow it did slip even a small amount, such as one tooth, the engine would run poorly.
Also, if the antifreeze froze solid enough to lock the water pump there is a good chance it would do other damage such as cracking the block or the radiator.

tehstriker88

which hasn't happened i've tried starting it not plugged in at -15 quite a few times so if that was the problem i wouldn't have a car right now, and now i have to bring in my car for that airbag defect

tehstriker88

well i took it into a shop.... what a waste of money.... on the bright side they gave me a free oil change.but the problem still persists

tehstriker88

so i finally got it right, a friend of my brother is a mechanic he told me to take it in for a compression test and came back (1.70psi 2.50psi 3.80 psi 4.120psi) in other words the only reason my car even started at all was because of my 4th cylinder which was the only one with no problems, just making up for the severe 2nd. soooooo new engine, new belts, new clutch, cranked the kms down to 56k rather than 196k good'n'go

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Sorry to hear that ... That would have been hard to diagnose over the internet... on the bright side, everything is neeeeewwwww.... If you don't mind me asking, how much did all that work run you in parts and labour? (preferably split up if you can)

ExistEvolution

fuel pump, check it

tehstriker88

umm.. well the paperwork isn't where its supposed to be but i can estimate what everything was

1550 for parts (since everything came with the motor)
1600 for labor (i think it was for 15 hrs)
with gst it was 3393.87... ish

and i thank everyone for the help anyway

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

That's not too bad. Your in good shape now anyway. I would have done it in my driveway! But I'm super cheap.

tehstriker88

and your driveway is? and i also was meaning to ask what would be easier on my motor? super or turbo

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Well, they don't make a supercharger for the D series engine so your kind of stuck with turbo My driveway is this lovely place where I spend way too much time