briand17a2

7thG obd2 ECUs are hard to work with.

Ive got an 05 EX AT (D17A2). I already have a factory wideband, but I have no way to correlate sensor output to a particular ratio. If we had this data, 04-05 owners might be able to use their factory wideband for tuning, saving ~$300 during the whole tuning process.

I need to find out what different boards are out there, find the similarities, differences, etc...then come up with some sort of modified binary that will work for everyone, or some sort of daughterboard to make this whole process easier.

I need info and as many pictures of boards as possible. Specifically, i need to be able to read the little silk-screened part numbers / manufacturers on the different ICs; also I need to be able to see resistor color bands, capacitor size markings, and as much other identifying information as possible.

The overall goal is to allow anyone with a USB cable to plug in, download telemetry, tune existing parameters, and/or tune according to their auxiliary parameters, like EGT, aftermarket WB02, knock, map/maf, ITB TP sensors, etc...plus automatic transmission control as well, since ive got a damn AT.

This way, if you want temperature / flowrate / pressure indication of every parameter in your vehicle, you will be able to do so, log it to a flashdrive/harddrive etc, display it on a monitor, gauge, or LED-bezel-majig.

So yea, i need pictures of 01-05 D17 boards, front and back, with as much identifying information as possible (dont include your VIN for the time being). I want this to work for anyone with a D17A1,2,6 whatever, MT or AT. With enough work, this could be extended to D16's, K's, B's and whatnot. But its going to take time.

Let me know what features parameters you would like to see included. Most standalones already include realtime parameter display, modification of MAP, ignition, TP gain (acc map) tables and whatnot. This would be baseline included functionality. But Im sure we can think of all kinds of other stuff that would help.

Example, you have pressure sensors threaded into your wheels somehow, and you want realtime pressure indication of your wheels. This would take up 4 channels of voltage sampling, one per wheel. Or say, you had pressure transducers installed on each cylinder, thats another 4 channels of required sampling.

Im also looking to sample pressures & temperatures at various points on the body and engine compartment, to find highest & lowest pressures experienced at speed; hottest & coldest engine compartment locations to help with intake placement, or parts that need a heatshield to increase performance.

So yea, let me know what you'd like to see implemented.

greeen01civic4d

iTrader: (7)

ur crazy, but im in for results, ill get u some pics when i do my headswap, gonna take time tho

briand17a2

yea, its definitely gonna take time :P I'll pull mine and take some pics soon. Actually, before anyone goes pulling their boards, Ill do mine and write up a procedure.

Im also looking for a server to put up a wiki on this (or something). I tried to write up a spec & procedure db for tuner/gearheads on wikipedia, but some hater deleted the info twice.

If anyone knows or happens to be an uber-geek, this project is going to require some serious geekin it up.

Im going to look into traction control and antilock brake control routines, in the event we have to bypass the factory routines completely. Retaining ABS is pretty important imo.

There's a host of MCU's that can be used for this sort of thing, motorola, parallax (lol), microchip inc, analog devices inc, etc. I figure going the motorola route would be helpful as some of the older crowd might have some experience in that area. The motorola 68k is the same mcu used in the TI-89.

But before I go to much farther, can anyone think why USB would not be a good idea for connectivity? As far as I know, just about every laptop made these days has a USB port on it. No converter cables required (like the damn eMangle), just a straight USB to USB connection from computer to ECU.

Lol, yea Im crazy, but these things have to start somewhere. Its been done for OBD0 and OBDI though.

Thoughts, ideas, suggestions all welcome. Happy early Easter 2 ere'body.

briand17a2

I just remembered that you can tell if rotating machinery is out of balance by listening to the sound it makes, or whatever its output signal is supposed to look like. I bet we could have the board monitor outputs to tell you if parts needed to be balanced, or if going above a certain RPM is about to cause damage. Might even extend to predicting bearing failure...it works for big *** pumps and whatnot.

Also, being able to monitor at least 1 throttlebody+map sensor per cylinder would let anyone tune the D17 to perfection. If I had a ferrari, things would be different, but until then, D17 ftw.

Envy

iTrader: (1)

im in! just tell me how to help lol

briand17a2

I need to know how many different boards the 01-05 DX/LX/EX MT/AT civics use.

Pretty much all the boards will look rather similar to an audio amplifier, except the ECU output transistors drive fuel injectors and ignition coils, rather than speaker voice coils :-)

Once we've identified the manufacturer(s) of the microcontroller(s) and eeproms, we can get the product spec sheets and programming manuals.

If the code is signed / encrypted, offset all screwy or whatever, no problem. I just want to figure out what hardware we're looking at working with so the end product will (hopefully) work for any and all D17 factory ecu's.

Next step is debug enable do search for the rom memory map entry point, in prep for the bin download. Then ive gotta scroll through a bunch of damn assembly code & attempt to reconstruct the I/O addresses of the various hardware (injector/coil driver IC's, etc...)

Once weve got the code entry point, we can hook MCU execution by putting custom prom addresses on the address bus of the MCU. At that point, say weve got our own interrupt controller, (running way faster than the stock ECU) we should be able to inject our own subroutines into the MCU, drive the stock hardware, monitor other params, and do generally whatever the hell we want.

So basically, Im gonna tear open my magic box and see what were up against. Ill post pics when I can. Last I checked, PGMFI.org was dead following hondata suing the owner for some reason. If anyone knows of other research going on in this area, please let me know.

speedfoos

iTrader: (17)

USB is good, but it gets flaky with too much electrical noise from a high-powered ignition system and the signal will drop out. Serial is a failsafe solution as it is not affected by the noise, however it's not very common on laptops anymore and you end up having to use an RS232 to USB converter which are usually worse than a straight USB. From what I understand, k-pro users have never had a problem, so USB is probably the best way to go.

Injector duty cycle is an important one to have, as well as fuel pressure and control over the pump (if possible) as well. I won't be able to give you any direct help until I get back in June though, because after the 26th I will be without internet until I get back.

Kudos to you for taking this on.

briand17a2

No problem Clint. We could do dynamic fuel pressure control however you want...if you can find a way to hook up a motor to a valve, then weve got electronic parameter control.

For the fuel injector duty cycle, I'd like to come up with a way that the computer can test each individual fuel injector, in some sort of pre-startup calibration mode. That way, regardless of injector manufacturer/size/whatever, you know you're getting meaningful data, and the injectors are doing exactly what you tell them. (Which is why I cant stand the eManage)

Ill post more when I get a chance. Regardless, good luck out there & I appreciate what your doing here and elsewhere. I remember those days away from home. Cheers for when its all said and done

02fpcivic

Dude they already sell gauges that plug into the obd2 ports just for this, hehe. I'll find the link and post it up.

02fpcivic

Here's one of many.
http://tunertools.com/proddetail.asp?prod=BE-R920

speedfoos

iTrader: (17)

Right Gerry, but it looks like Brian is going down the road of EEPROM burning, chipping, etc.. much like Crome and Uberedit but for the D17. We may be able to get a chippable solution out of something like this. Beats the hell out of piggybacks and $1200 EMSs. My $70 Ebay OBDII scanner does all the readings I need, but that's it.

briand17a2

Looking at what parameters need to be implemented. I'm going to have to hook up the ABS unit and AT controller outputs to see how they work. The goal is to be able to retain stock functionality for...inspections and whatnot.

If everything goes as planned, I want to be able to modify / set:

Automatic Transmission Control:
Shift points
Clutch engagement time (Smooth/Sport/I have a clutch?)

ABS Controller:
On/Off
Pseudo-traction control (if your D17 happens to spin the tyres )


Logging / Setpoint control:

Lots of temperature monitor inputs
Lots of pressure sensor inputs
Relay controls for lighting, misc solenoids (valve lift control e.g. EGR, wastegate, boost controller/IACV PWM signals, etc...)

TCP/IP over ethernet

Im tired. Will post more later.

Hardware sucks alot

Matteo

iTrader: (1)

anything that will help out my Automatic Transmission grately appreciated!

ryox82

iTrader: (4)

bump for updates!

lordhelmet

iTrader: (3)

What ever happened to this? Is it still going on?

overrev_it

yeah intersted in this also

j182j

iTrader: (2)

Very intersting I will help if you need. Let me know.

02BLKCIVIC

iTrader: (8)

sounds fuuunnn

speedfoos

iTrader: (17)

Bump. OP hasn't been on since May.

briand17a2

Back from the dead and somewhat smarter...

Where ive been: Transferred into electrical engineering and have been very busy upgrading my inability to do math good. But yes, im still working on this.

How's everyone been for the last year? :-)

speedfoos

iTrader: (17)

Most of us left this forum, a lot of us parted our cars.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

welcome back

lordhelmet

iTrader: (3)

How much progress has been made on this?

krarnold

I'm interested in this, so I'm bringing it back!

iridehonda

I guess nothing ever came of this?

Nitrous1024

Since the OEM 7th generation ECUs can't be flashed, I highly doubt this is going to work without a stand alone or piggy back system.

SlimRisk

They were gonna do much more than that. Seems like modding the board or making on of their own, I don't know. I'm not that good with computers