mikey1

a startup guarantee does not guarantee the head gasket will be good,

RSKtakR

He said it would come with manifolds but I would have to swap mine on, and then it would be a direct drop in, and that it has a 30 day warranty from the time I take possession. I'm not afraid to swap some accessories and the manifolds, and then yank and install a complete motor. I would probably be leary of doing a timing belt and water pump before putting the Hmotors motor in, but I'd be stupid to NOT put new ones on before the motor gets installed. Nothing I cant learn from a book I suppose. I think this is best option though still.

RSKtakR

exactly... I would swap the head gasket while its out as well, as it would be stupid to NOT do that while doing everything else and its not in the car.

KillerCam251

HMotors offers a 100% startup guarantee IF you change those before you install, so basically if you don't change out those things and it doesn't start its on you but if you do change them and it won't start HMotors will replace it. And it makes absolutely no sense he told you you need to change the manis, they are the same motor, thats just extra work for no reason, the only thing youd have to do is swap the fuel rails since its RHD

RSKtakR

he said it was because the intake/exh manifolds were different since the US version has emissions, so ya I don't know. He didn't say anything about the fuel rail though lol

KillerCam251

id ask what emissions he is talking about because the egr is on the cylinder head

RSKtakR

I THINK I can see the EGR in the pic of the motor on their website, but that doesn't mean anything I guess.

mikey1

if your going to replace the head gasket, timing belt, tensioner, water pump, and plugs on a used engine that you buy, you might as well just save the money and do the same work to your own engine,

i dont see the benefit to buying a used engine if thats the case,

am i missing something here?

KillerCam251

for me I have zero down time to get this done, it literally needs to be a pull and drop in. I have no other car and the military isn't understanding of anything when you are late lol. Also I'd like to take my time to rebuild it instead of getting overwhelmed and try to rush it while its in car or some factor that comes up that makes it undrivable

bsmiley

I'm missing something too, and if not us, somebody is sure missing something. If you pull your engine to swap it, you might as well save $1000 and put the money into overhauling your engine. Its all pretty easy to do with engine out of the car. Don't be worried about the unknown, check out the DIYs. You can do it! Even search youtube.

KillerCam251

Well I just said why but I guess everyone disregarded that post

KillerCam251

also if we were to just pull our engines to overhaul it, and the head needs to be resurfaced, the car's down time will be at the mercy of the machine shop which could take weeks.

ezone

If it's never been overheated, it should not need resurfaced.
Even if it did, machine shops (here) would only have it overnight at the most.


--------

Jeez. I'm expected to have this done in less than a day. I'm expected to do rings in a V6 in less than a day. Pistons in a K engine in less than a day and a half. An R engine short block replacement in a day and a half.

I'm pretty sure they expect techs to have an impact gun growing out of your arm sometimes.

KillerCam251

Well that seals the deal for me then, my car has overheated twice to a bad thermostat, each time I caught it though and turned the car off.

ezone

That's a good thing.


It's never a done deal until the head is measured for flatness with a precision straightedge.

KillerCam251

RSKtakR, have you tried anything to bust the oil rings loose? I put some marvel mystery oil in today and have gumout regane ready for when I have to fill up again, if that doesn't work last ditch effort is gonna be marvel mystery oil in the cylinders thru the spark plug wells and let it sit for a couple days. Maybe a waste of time but id like to try all the $3-$10 stuff before I drop a grand.

usajags84

Ok this is a long shot but.....
Yesterday I was helping a friend wrench on his 02 civic he was "burning oil" about a half qt every 500-600 miles or so he thought...
I checked the whole car over good lookin for oil leaks and I didn't see anything but an area with a weep there was a little tiny I mean tiny pool it was right where the cam shaft seal plug was...
Well we replaced it with a factory one at the tune of $8.80 at our local dealer


I know you tested your compresson and the numbers seemed good I am wondering if you have a leak I do realize you looked on the engine really good and I believe ya!
However we spend over an hour looking for a leak cleaned the engine off took off the air box wiped down the whole transmission and the engine pan from 12 years of crud then ran it and this was the only amount we found just a little spittle it ran down the front of his transmission and left a little drop

I doubted this would be the cause of his problems
His car has 190k
However he drove to new Orleans this morning and back 450 miles no loss of oil what so ever

I mean with the compression numbers and the head work I am sure you looked for leaks but let me tell you we bearly found this one the way it was and your beig a vtech has the e g r in the way and could make it even more difficult to find

Before people jump I have seen these leak before and it makes a pool and a huge mess but when I mean we could bearly see it it was unreal how difficult it was to find

KillerCam251

Thanks for the info, if all else fails Ill give my engine another thorough once over, I may throw in some uv dye as well just to rule out leaks completely. But if I don't have to spend $1000 for a new engine that would be awesome.

RSKtakR

I have a can of seafoam, and I just haven't gotten brave enough to use it yet though since I have never done that to a motor lol. But I agree with you and I will be doing the same before having to blow $1k+ for another motor.

Are you planning on running the motor with the marvel in it (in the oil and added through the brake booster line) AND letting it sit in the cylinders for a couple days or just letting it sit in the cylinders without actually having the motor run and that's it? I wouldn't think that just adding it through your spark plug holes will serve any purpose because the oil rings are the lowest ring set on the pistons and the marvel will just sit on top of the piston and upper ring and not soak down past those rings to get TO the oil ring set... right?

I thought the point was to add it to the oil, then add more while the motor is running through the brake booster line, then in the gas tank as well so it hits both top and bottom ring sets and THEN let it soak?? I could be wrong since I don't have my actual instructions to do it all in front of me right now.

RSKtakR

I know exactly which plug your talking about and trust me that was one of the first spots I looked and it was bone dry just like the rest of the motor. I pulled the EGR off as well to clean it out, and everything in that area was clean and the plug is secure. I have read and been told that the compression numbers don't matter and wont show low if the oil rings are shitty because they are on the bottom and there are different rings above them that hold the compression. So at this point I'm going to try a seafoam treatment once (or twice if I find out the chances of it helping between 400-500 miles to break **** up is good). If the motor still drinks oil afterwards then I will just start keeping it full daily of Orielly's 5w30 until next spring and put a motor in it.

KillerCam251

with MMO its not like seafoam, sort of. It can replace a quart of oil in the engine and you can run it fine like that or you can put it in the gas tank. After my car eagerly went through a quart of oil I added the MMO and am just driving on it. It has been 3 days and its still eating oil. The other method I have seen is people take a oil squirter and put MMO in it and pump 2-3 squirts of MMO right in the cylinders and let it sit overnight to soak (it'll slowly work its way around the ring gaps eventually to the oil control rings) then the next day HAND rotate the engine a few times then repeat, you'll have to have the car sitting for like 2-3 days to do this method. After the prescribed time you leave your plugs out and disable the fuel injectors and cover the spark plug holes with a rag and crank it with the starter to dislodge any remaining MMO, then start it up as normal. I have perused alot of Miata forums with guys doing this with positive results. I just added the Gumout Regane today so this weekend if no change I'll do the MMO cylinder treatment.

KillerCam251

I also forgot to mention I ordered UV engine/transmission oil dye and a UV light to detect leaks. I'll comment further on that when I get them.

ezone

The theory is right but the piston soaking is still a longshot IMO.
And if soaking, I'd fill the cylinders as much as possible with whatever I'm using. Don't want it all to run past the rings and have nothing left in the chamber.




One of the carbon eaters that really seems to work well is MOPAR combustion chamber cleaner. It's got chemicals that are hazardous in California!
I got some of this from the Chrysler dealer next door when I was doing a ring job, and I was pretty impressed at how well it worked. Now I try to grab all the partial cans I can find when I visit LOL.

I'd spray a bunch of this in the cylinders if I was going to let the rings soak.... (Might want to change the oil afterwards though!)

KillerCam251

It's always the stuff that'll kill you that works the best

RSKtakR

Ok so I've read about Seafoam, MMO and MCCC here. I would like to give one of these a shot here in two weeks when the car can sit for a couple days. Which one do you all think would have the best results.. the results being getting the oil ring broke free (if that's the problem) ?

I also plan on filling the cylinders up and letting it sit over night as well or however long is suggested. That being said, it seems like there are different procedures for the three different options here (Seafoam, MCCC, MMO).

I would like to NOT run one that will make the car smoke like crazy (I read I was suppose to add the Seafoam to the gas as well so it will smoke for a little while) if possible, but if that is the option that will yield the best results then I will do it. I guess like the rest of you, these options will be my last ditch efforts before just replacing the motor.. .which I don't really care to do.

EDIT: I found these instructions for the MCCC from a technician at Chrysler..

Mopar Combustion Chamber Cleaner/Conditioner is really good for removing carbon deposits, but the directions on the can are not so useful. The following directions outline the way that professional mechanics have been using the cleaner for years -- they were finally published in TSB 18-31-97 for 1996-98 Jeep 4.0 Liter misfire conditions:

decarbonizing Procedure
1. Operate the vehicle until the vehicle reaches operating temperature.
2. Remove the air tube from the throttle body.
3. With the engine at an idle, spray the entire contents of Mopar Combustion Cleaner, p/n 04318001, directly into the throttle body. Allow the vehicle to load up with the cleaner to the point of almost stalling out.
4. Shut the engine OFF after the entire can is ingested.
5. With the hood closed and the vehicle parked inside the garage, allow the vehicle to soak for two to three hours. This will ensure that the engine will maintain its temperature and will allow proper solvent penetration.
6. Drive the vehicle on a highway/freeway that will allow the vehicle to be driven safely at the posted speed limit. Upon entering the highway/freeway, accelerate hard to the posted speed limit and maintain speed. Slow down and then perform 5 to 10 Wide Open Throttle (WOT) upshifts. Continue driving at the maximum speed limit for 1-2 miles (if conditions allow).

If you guys were applying the MCCC to your motor, would you do this, as well as fill the cylinders up after spraying it through the throttle body until the motor stalls, and then letting the motor sit for hours or all night before hand cranking the motor? I have read that this stuff is an actual "foam" so there is no chance of hydrolocking the motor like you would with Seafoam since this compresses? I have also read that spraying this MCCC through the PCV valve/hose is better then through the throttle body because then it actually gets to ALL cylinders instead of the just a couple of them.

If its safe I would also like to add the MCCC (or whichever you guys suggest) to the oil so its on the bottom end of the pistons for SURE, drive it for a couple days and THEN run it through the top of the motor/let it sit in the cylinders over night. After running it and getting it all out of the intake and cylinders etc, I would change the oil, and MAYBE add another CD2 oil additive in the oil, however I haven't decided if I want to do the CD2 or not yet.

ezone

Forget that. It WILL smoke until all the 'fluid' has burned off.


The instructions you have up there are for cleaning a specific area, combustion chambers and valves. Your issue is not this.

YOUR goal is to get the bottom sets of rungs unstuck, therefore the above approach wouldn't work as well as directly filling the cylinders with the stuff and letting them soak in liquid. Start with a hot engine yes, but I'd just fill the cylinders.

JMHO


Yes it can come out of the can as a sort of foam, but it is still a liquid. Foam will turn back into liquid when it sits a couple minutes. A spray can sprayed into a running engine won't supply enough liquid to hydrolock SOME engines, BUT look at your intake manifold: It's not a straight shot into the engine, the chamber goes waaaay down so liquid will sit there and pool in the bottom....waiting for the first time you punch the throttle to ingest a huge gulp of liquid..

RSKtakR

I wanted to hit the pistons/rings from BOTH ends so that as much as possible can be cleaned out. I understand how to do the top side and soaking etc. I was just going to add some MCCC to the crank case (if its ok to do) drive it for a couple hundred miles, then do the top side, then change the oil and go from there.

Unless you all suggest otherwise?

About the intake manifold ya, I noticed that and figured that's why I would have to be giving it some gas (1500 rpms or so) while spraying in through the manifold or into a vacuum hose on the intake manifold.

KillerCam251

As a combustion chamber cleaner i wouldnt run MCCC in the oil. If you want to run something in the oil do either seafoam or MMO

ezone

^What he said^

Mopars stuff is not for the crankcase.

RSKtakR

Ok so MCCC for the top side only then. I have a can of seafoam, no MMO though. Is either of them better than the other or are they pretty much the same for what I am wanting to accomplish with the bottom end?