Detailed D17 NA Build Research- COMMENT HERE!!!! - Page 8

bomerman19 · 06-09-2009

You want a port and polished head http://www.dezod.com/pd_force_fed_co...tnpolished.cfm

yeah $3000 for head unless you supply the core these are the only guys that sell a P&P head to the masses unless you go to a machine shop and have it done and they are originally from Florida. now if you go to a machine shop and have a real port and polish job done it runs about 250 a cylinder. a lot of machine shops do do cheap port jobs but it is basically just a freshen up that won't gain you anything with P&P you get what you pay for. if you get it realy cheap your just getting a guy with a die grinder just hogging the whole thing out. and if you really want that well it's not hard to do your self. but you won't see any gains like a real P&P job.

now the high compression thing you can run high compression all day long like I said before it is dependent on the tune I have a buddy running 12.3 comp on an h22 on 93 octane he goes gets grocery's and then proceeds to beat the shit out of it and it has lasted. One most people don't realize is it is ignition timing that kills on high comp. you can run 93 octane and high compression in your motor but you have to be conservative with the spark. dump in some c16 and you can go crazy with the spark. and also since hondas have aluminum heads you can go pretty high on the compression thanks to heat dissipation. high compression on hondas is not hard thing to do. you run as much risk running high comp pistons as you do boosting the car. and they can last forever if tuned right look at the s2k. as far as tuning you wouldn't be able to get the a d17 running with high comp pistons without engine management and tunning you would know this if you ever tried to actaully squeeze power out of a d17 N/A wise.

you can't hit 100% efficiency even with boost it's impossible there are too many factors that you can't control. Air friction, turbulence, temp compensation, atmospheric pressure, fluid dynamics, piston head design. and even if you broke the laws of physics and got perfect flow you still got the stock intake mani (wich barley flows to 8000 rpm) in the way, plus headers, cam, and a bunch of other factors that I can't even think of right them moment. So why don't you do the math cause I already did the math and built the cars. Most powerful N/A d17 in the country and I helped build the most powerful turbo d17.

P&P and high compression has been talked about in significant detail in the N/A research threads on this forum the reality is that P&P is too cost prohibited if done right for most people with a d17 boost or N/A. and High compression is pretty much out of the question right the moment for the d17 cause you either have to go aftermarket wich would be about $450 for wiesco High comp pistons and since those don't work with stock rods you need to drop another $700 on aftermarket rods or you can stick in gx pistons which go to 12.5 comp but the problem with that is there are only 3 pistons in the country so you have to wait for honda to make more which will more than likely take 1/2 a year. If you milled the head you might get 1 hp.

So all in all have to very much agree with foo's comment LOL!

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lordhelmet · 06-09-2009

I'm a little confused here. I remember you talking about the GX high compression pistons and how there were only three of them in the US more than six months ago. Why not just buy the pistons? If you would have bought them six months ago you could have gotten them by now and installed them.

TRIZ · 06-09-2009

Three my ass, and you would need four anyways. I dont know where anyone is getting these inventory numbers.

I've barely seen a GX engine bay, nevertheless the block with the head pulled, but it would be much much cheaper to pick up a GX block complete with oil pan and all the guts and mate it to a built EX head. I'm not sure if all the coolant holes would match up exactly though. I dont believe anyone has done this, as only a small handful of ppl have even though about the GX pistons.

speedfoos · 06-09-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by bomerman19

(wich barley flows to 8000 rpm)

LOL. Paul said "barley" and barley is a key ingredient in beer, which is better than everything else in the whole world. Especially N/A Honda Civics.

lordhelmet · 06-09-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRIZ

Three my ass, and you would need four anyways. I dont know where anyone is getting these inventory numbers.

I've barely seen a GX engine bay, nevertheless the block with the head pulled, but it would be much much cheaper to pick up a GX block complete with oil pan and all the guts and mate it to a built EX head. I'm not sure if all the coolant holes would match up exactly though. I dont believe anyone has done this, as only a small handful of ppl have even though about the GX pistons.

So you can't stroll into a Honda dealership and drop 64 bucks a piston to order 4 GX pistons? I find it hard to believe no one considering these pistons has done it.`

TRIZ · 06-09-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordhelmet

So you can't stroll into a Honda dealership and drop 64 bucks a piston to order 4 GX pistons? I find it hard to believe no one considering these pistons has done it.`

I forget how much the stock gx rods weighted in at, and if they were any different then the reg D17 rods... getting those and the pistons already in the block would save you a big hassle of putting them together. Hmmmmm... I wonder if you would need a GX wireharness instead of an EX wireharness. HMMMM... EX ecu should work too right?? Anyone know?

bomerman19 · 06-10-2009

no I found out that there were 3 pistons about 2 months ago but I am strapped for cash right the moment and I think I am putting the N/A on hold and strapping on the turbo on but I might try to to get #'s one last time before the turbo goes on.

I am getting my numbers directly from honda the 3 pistons are at a dealership in cali. the head and cam on a gx motor is the same as a d17A1 the intake mani is different cause it uses natural gas not gasoline. there would be no point to use any of the gx wiring or ECU it wouldn't work cause it would be a bunch of different sensors that would not work if you tried to shove gasoline through it. and you can't use the ex ecu on it your going to be needing to control the ignition timing and fuel. K-pro is probably the only thing that you can get away with on it cause of the ignition timing.

also getting the pistons in the block already would be awesome but there is something like 4 or 5 blocks in the country almost all of them are in cali and they all cost $500 not including shipping which to the east coast is at least $200

mmmmmm beer!

lordhelmet · 06-11-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by bomerman19

also getting the pistons in the block already would be awesome but there is something like 4 or 5 blocks in the country almost all of them are in cali and they all cost $500 not including shipping which to the east coast is at least $200

mmmmmm beer!

Buy the block. I'll pick it up and get the pistons out and ship them your way.

Who am I kidding. The only person close to putting in high compression pistons to see what they can do in a d17 is going turbo probably for good. Oh well.

bomerman19 · 06-11-2009

sweet but I don't have $500 but I did just paint the spare block that I have just dedicated for High comp pistons I wouldn't give up on me just yet mostly cause I am in the middle of a paypal dispute (guy gave a tracking # USPS never got the package to go with the tracking #) If I get my money back which I should I might pick up those pistons.

I really do want to see what it can do all out. Once I get the new head repaired I will slap it on with the stage 2 cam, intake mani, try-y header and see what it can do. i will probably even get it tuned instead of just putting it on the dyno. I will say that without the new head and the stage 2 back in I have been slowly walking past the brand new Si's with LSD's in them I don't know about past 90mph though they probably would catch up on the high end

turbo zombie · 2 Weeks Ago

i haven't read all 8 pages yet, so sorry if someone has already answered this.

someone asked about why you might upgrade the valve size on the exhaust but not the intake. when flow bench testing a cylinder head, and when porting and polishing, it is generally measured in cubic feet per minute, cfm. you want the exhaust cfm to be a certain percentage of the intake cfm. i have been told by a man that has flow benched a lot of different makes of cylinder heads, that most production heads do not have the optimum percentage (for power, at least). possibly manufacturers run an undersized exhaust valve to reduce emmissions? i will look up what the proper ratio is supposed to be, i have it in some papers somewhere.

bomerman19 · 2 Weeks Ago

on turbo you can go all out with bigger valves but with N/A if you have too much flow you start to lose velocity so having a good balance is what makes all the difference in the world.