2k8si

I have a 2008 Si with ~65k miles, mostly city driving. The car is completely stock except for a K&N air filter.

I went to the dealership for an oil change. I got a call from the service guy who suggested to me a brake fluid exchange(flush) for $75, valve adjustment for $185 and a fuel system service for $130.

I had them do the brake fluid but not the other two so I could look online and do some research first.

I will say that cold starts on my Si take a bit longer than before.
Advice please? Any would be appreciated.

lazlong

Valve adjustment is recommended every 40-60K miles. Don't know what they mean by fuel system service besides a fuel additive.

2k8si

Thanks. I just copied what was on the invoice. All it says is "fuel system service" so I'm not sure. I'm going to call other dealers and see what they charge for the valve adjustment.

MindBomber

I'm wondering what fuel system service is too...

If you're on the original battery, that would be the explanation for cold starts taking a bit longer.

2k8si

It's not the original battery. Last summer I was listening to the radio but had the car off. The battery died and wouldn't hold a charge anymore. I replaced it with a new one.

2k8si

Who recommends the valve adjustment at 40-60k? There is no recommended maintenance in my manual.

I went to another dealer, the mechanic recommended the valve adjustment at 100k. I couldn't believe a stealership was turning down money. They also didn't know what a fuel system service was. The original dealer I went to was Unicars Honda in Indio, CA.

Anyway, the new dealer offered to do an inspection for free. They later called to inform me that my brakes were dangerously low. Made sense since I hadn't changed them since I bought the car new in '08. I had them put new brakes in.

Why did Unicars Honda try to sell me costly maintenance yet failed to tell me my brakes were low?

ezone

I don't know what really went on, but I'll take a guess or two, based on my many years of both dealership and independent shop experience:

Sadly, many people in this industry are NOT there to serve you or fix your car.

Picking the low hanging fruit.
The lure of easy money has a very strong appeal.
Some dealers depend on this type of upsell (filters and flushes), done by the rookies, the low-paid. The low-paid figure out what makes the easiest money, and never learn much about service or fixing cars.
This generates revenue, and is very low risk (usually).
Even high paid people will go for the easy money.
Few shops have a full roster of all stars.





Whomever was working on the car may never have suggested the upsells. The person on the phone may have done it, just to get your money. This may or may not have completely cut out the tech from the picture.

If the work is not really done, there is zero risk of disaster. 99.9% of the people would never know otherwise. The desk jockey collects all of the commission in the above case.
Most people that make much more than minimum wage in any dealership are paid on some sort of commission type pay plan.
This can lead to people doing anything they can to put food on the table.

(Not all of us dealer techs are out to fill our retirement accounts from your visit though.)

Brake fluid, injector flush, and valve adjustment are all things that you may never notice if they weren't actually done.
Shove it out the door, collect the money. They win, you get hosed.


See if the brake fluid looks halfway clean and new. It doesn't stay fresh looking for long.



Gee, most gravy mechanics go for brakes because they are easy money. You must have got a really lazy one, if it was really the mechanic that tried to upsell the work.

Your owners manual will answer most of your service questions (RTFM). If it isn't in there, you had better seriously question it.

Yes on brake fluid, 3 years is the generally accepted interval, even if it is not mentioned in your owners manual. Brake fluid absorbs moisture, and that can cause expensive problems over time.

Valve adjustment, only maybe. Yes it should be done if there is a problem, but no, it is not a normal part of service in most cases. RTFM.
(We had an S2000 with only 15k not too long ago, valves were horribly loose and clattery. Owner bought it off the internet, used, from several states away. Has been crashed. Owner did not get any prepurchase inspection.)

I think (I didn't look) the service recommendation says to adjust valves if they are noisy.
Loose valves make noise.
Problem is, most Hondas' valves tighten up, not loosen up.
Tight valves don't make noise, they burn.
Some of Hondas engines are known for valve problems, old CRVs are one example. If many of them have big problems by 120k, we will try to do a full valve adjust every 60k. Hopefully save someone from a valve job later on.


Injector service: Is it in the owners manual? No. Injector service is only going to be a cleaning, at best using an on-the-car pressurized cleaner that the engine runs on, or, not as good--a tank additive. Another revenue generator.
Effectiveness is questionable at best, if there really is an injector problem.
Normally not necessary. Use top tier fuel.
Read up: http://www.toptiergas.com/
Rare to see injector problems, but it happens on occasion. Most problems get replaced.

Sounds far more ethical to me than the first dealer, or at least you got a more honest tech. Stick with them, stick with the same tech. Ask for him by name if you feel comfortable with him.

Quite often I recommend things that are known problems, like automatic transmission fluid services, for example. Honda has had so many issues with their transmissions in the past, that we double up on the services on most of the cars. If the manual says 60k, we do it at 30k. Sometimes it doesn't matter what we do, they still fail. Some go a long way, too.
My mom drives an 02 Accord, and that model is known to have trans problems. I have been changing trans fluid at every other oil change on her car. So far, so good.
I will be changing the trans fluid on my new '12 Civic with every oil change.




How long are you talking about when you say it takes longer to start the car now? An extra second or two? Fuel blends change with the seasons. I don't know where you are at, but it can make a big difference here. Especially if the temperatures are unseasonably different.
With winter blend fuel, someone that parks in a heated garage can have hard starting problems.
High octane fuel makes cars harder to start too, under the many conditions. Especially if the car is supposed to use low octane gas. So can ethanol.

Gunner

^ Yeah what he said LOL..

pnamajck

i bought my 2002 honda civic lx straight from the new car lot . . . never did any of that "scheduled maintenance" crap . . . 300k miles and still running strong.

i faithfully get oil changed every 4k miles . . . no tune-ups at all . . . timing belts (and water pump) changed every 125k. still on the original hydraulic clutch . . . one new set of disk-pads up front . . . drums in the back are still original.

the dealer wanted to do stuff every time i brought it in for oil change . . . i tell 'em to keep their hands off.

then again . . . i been driving hondas for the past 30 years . . . go figure.

2k8si

Thanks for the input, I appreciate it. I plan on sticking with the second dealership for now.

As far as the cold start, it takes an extra second or two compared to before (the first 2 years I had it) when it would fire up as soon as I turned the key it seemed, instantly. I lived in the Coachella Valley since I bought it in 2008 up until about 6 months ago when I moved to Los Angeles.
Coachella Valley weather is mild from October to May (70s on average I would say) and the other months (June to September) it can hit up to 122.
I always use 91 octane for my Si.

ezone

Oh. Oxygenated fuels for smog reduction.

I'd ignore the extra second of cranking, it's an average effect of the ethanol.