junbug30s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sS3lJxw72NM

Looks like alot of us aren't alone!

more info on http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/mecha...echnical-chat/

FoSho

wow...haha all I can do is laugh. I work at Honda as a service advisor & tech on the side. I've had these complaints before. I have test drove & inspected several brand new civics. I have found no issues what so ever. I've test drove over 100 miles on 1 paticular civic. Nothing. I couldn't get 3rd gear to pop out! I have even drove with several customers.....nothing happens as soon as I'm in the car!

I'd really like to see some more cars but right now I can't find anything. Honda should go get that guys car on the new report, strip the tranny appart, & when none of the parts come back as a manuf. defect I'm gonna laugh. It would be even more funny if the gears wear worn from improper driving. This is usually the case with all cases I've seen.

Just my 2 cents. Honda knows what they're doin!

They wanna see a messed up tranny, they should came for a ride in the turbo They would heard all kinda noises & shudders. Stop complaining I wish my 02 civic shifted as nice as a new one!

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

about time they finally got it on the news. it took years before honda put out the tsb for defective 01-02 auto transmission clutch. and by that time guess what, all the 01-02 are out of warranty and do not qualify for getting it fixed. people like you are the reason i no longer take my car to the dealer.

FoSho

Well maybe if you got the news involved it would have gotten taken care of faster! My transmission blew up & had several tsb's.......did I blame honda?
I totally unstand how these people feel....they bought a 22k car that has issues. Anyone would be upset.

However, I would do anything in my power to get it fixed....I love fixing cars, thats how I make money! I'm not here weather to judge....I work on hondas & I fix hondas....I am a private dealership...every dealership is. We just represent, sell, & service a honda product. BUT!!! If I can find nothing wrong with a transmission I am not going to replace the transmission. Then come to find out when Honda calls it back for inspection nothing is wrong...Oh wait...I'm stuck with a $6000 dollar bill that Honda won't pay for.......Just because some whinney kid thought his transmission is out.

I'm just telling you my experience with it........I HAVE SEEN NO ISSUES WHAT SO EVER.............do you work at a honda shop? do you deal with these people & honda everyday? People like you are the reason I fix cars......because I know how to and I can! No need to jump down my throat man.....but I'm use to it......people vent to me all day long. There is alot of good things a dealership can offer.....yes we're pricey but we know what the f&*k we are doing...trained & experienced in everything HONDA!

You may think dealerships are out to get you, rip you off, & void your warranties......but......My dealership is very honest, hard working, & experienced. I don't turn down work.....infact I love warranty work! I can actually count on Honda paying for the repairs unlike some deadbeat like you not wanting to pay me for my hard work & dedication!

People like you...hah!

Mosfet32

FoSho, you may work for Honda, but that doesn't mean you know everything that is going on with every car and you are crazy if you think all these people are making up this problem. As a matter of fact, Honda issued a TSB about the problem on April 12th. Here is the TSB:

http://automotivetech.org/at/6spdtsb.pdf


The 3rd gear problem with 2006 and 2007 civic SI's is was documented way back in the road and track long term review of the 2006 SI. They said that after 1-year of driving it was difficult to engage 3rd gear, but that the shifter was "still a useful tool when used in anger".

Other reviewers have written about the problem as well. See this link, for example:

http://blogs.edmunds.com/roadtests/558

See the fox news story here:

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/ho...all/1182060044

I read numerous blogs about this on the web before I purchased my 2007 SI a few weeks ago. Sure enough, my car exhibits the problem too. 3rd gear is tough to get into and has popped out on me twice. I took it to Honda today and they told me they were aware of the problem but that there was not a resolution yet (which is a lie - see the TSB above). They documented my complaint so that it would be on file.

I am a long term honda enthusiast driving my 5th Honda. but ALL of them have had tranny problems. Honda makes the best cars in the world, but they can't make a transmission worth a damn. All of my previous hondas have had auto trans. I figured I'd be in the clear with a good old reliable manual gear box... no such luck.

this will be my last Honda if I don't get this problem resolved to my satisfaction at no charge to me.

Mosfet32

error

Mosfet32

error - duplicate post

greeen01civic4d

iTrader: (7)

ok, common misconcepton about TSBs, they have nothing to do with recalls, or warranties, all it is is a diagnosis tool for technicians, to cut down on diagnosis time, all it gives is part numbers, procedures, and possible causes. however, i do agree with the fact that they should take care of the problem, if u know about this, take the TSB to them, and prove that ur not dumb, they will cover it, before the problems get into the rest of ur trans. I also work for a dealership(not honda) and see problems like this all the time, and if a problem is not persistent enough to happen while i test drive a car, the problem cannot be verified, and we cannot fix it under warranty, it wont get paid for by Ford(dealer i work for) This is good information to share, so people get taken care of, but this is not easy, or small work, be patient, and calm, u might actually get somewhere with them if u are a calm, rational customer, who acts like they just want the problem solved

FoSho

Well it's obvious mosfet has no idea what he is talking about......so how many Si's have you diagnosis'd & test drove for this complaint? You show me one car that I can get this to happen and I'll fix it. I love warranty work.....at least I know honda will pay me for the repairs. I don't have to try & collect from a whinney customer. If I can find an issue....I'll fix it. I like money....the transmission repair pays 8 hours at min.......ya!!! most warranty claims I do I get hosed....honda doesn't pay ****....8 hours is like a trip to warranty heaven........that 8 hours also means they will call for the recalled parts....if they can't find any reason as to why I warrantied them....I get stuck with the bill.....not happenin.

You really have no idea mosfet......thank you green for the nicer comment....I'm fed up with customers today

oh BTW.......automatic transmissions are junk...period.....no matter who makes em....it's like a bunch of brake pads inside....they eventually wear out.........

oh and if you look on the TSB....it says.....NOTE: It is not uncommon for there to be some
resistance or notchiness when shifting into 3rd gear This is a performance oriented gear box....

this will be my last Honda if I don't get this problem resolved to my satisfaction at no charge to me.
who cares? I don't!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

thank goodness for aftermarket parts. idk what i would do if i had to keep fixing and replacing oem parts all day cause they cant handle a little abuse. if it were me, i would get a different clutch. how do you know the oem one they fix wont have the same problem again? or even if they replaced it with a new oem, it still had the defect.

Mosfet32

FoSho,

I don't need to diagnose and test drive any more of these cars than the one I own. My car is exhibiting the problem. I noted it the first day I drove the vehicle. It is not difficult to figure out that all other gears are easy to engage except 3rd.

There are hundereds, if not thousands, of other people complaining about the same issue. There was at leat one national news story about the problem on television. And most importantly Honda has issued a TSB stating:

PROBLEM: the 6 speed manual transmission grinds when shifting into 3rd gear, pops out of 3rd gear, or is hard to shift into 3rd gear.

Probably Cause: The transmission has a FAULTY synchronizer or 3-4 shift sleeve.

Feel free to tell me I have "no idea" if you want to live in a fantasy land. It appears you think all the people who are experiencing this problem are imagining it. If that is the case, then why is has Honda acknowledged the issue with the TSB?

I'm not attacking you personally, FoSho. I'm not attacking Honda either. I love Honda vehicles. Just don't pretend something isn't a problem, even if you don't have personal experience with it, when there is ample data to support that the problem exisits.

I am quite confident I will have my tranny fixed by Honda and that I will be happy with it afterwards.

FoSho

Hmmm...well if I test drove a 25k car and had issues with the gear box I don't think I would have purchased it....just my 2 cents.....

It's ok you don't believe me.......you don't have to........I do this everyday. My experience w/ this issue has yielded nothing.......I've been keeping count.....at least 10 of these complaints......and you know where the customers get the idea into there head? On here....on the net.....on the forums......

I have even test drove w/ customers with no success. I change the transmission fluid per honda's previous s/b.......none of them have been back since. I even let the customers go & drive a new si........no difference.....

Infact earlier this week I had to drive a couple hours both way to a Toyota training center....guess what I took earlier this week.............an 2006 black honda civic si w/ HFP package we got on trade in........I spent about 4-5 hours in the car......downtown traffic, off ramps, on ramps, highway driving...you name it. I wish my gear box felt that way!!!! I even talked to kid who traded it in......has no issue w/ the transmission.

I also have a handfull of si owners who have any no issues......one even has a bunch of miles on it...I think he's 70-80k mark. I guess they're lying too.......

Believe me....if I could find an undeniable problem I would tell you guys....I don't care about these piece of junk cars.........they're all the same too me....but I'm not about to just change my opinion when I am the guy in the field who has to deal with it.

d17_18psi

Hey guys, look that 3rd gear problem is true. For example, i took an 07 si for a test drive at the dealer and sure enouigh as im driving it with the sales rep 3rd gear popped right out as i was driving. He even saw it pop out and was shocked because he's heard about the problem but never encountered it. I asked him if they were going to sell this car (it was a demo) and he said of course. I was kinda shocked because thats f'in wrong. Honda makes nice good quality cars that could take a beating but when it comes down to customer service, forget about it. as you're purchasin g the car, they are working with you with amazing customer service, but as soon as you take that car off the lot, its your problem basically. So FoSho, i know you work for Honda and want to get paid for your work but dude Honda's are fuc@#g expensive and we want you guys to honour your damn warranties and when you have so many complaints, call a damn client take his tranny out and see for yourself, Honda tranny's are flimsy. I also had a problem with my 03 civic, there was a problem with 2nd and 3rd gear, kept popping out. Go do some reasearch on the web for d17a1 civics and you'll see there are problems with their tranny's but Honda doesn't give a ****. So before you open your mouth, open up a tranny!

FoSho

wow....you still aren't getting it..

no duplicate...no repair....WARRANTY MEANS WHO IS GONNA PAY FOR IT>>>>IF I CANNOT DUPLICATE CONCERN HONDA WILL NOT PAY FOR IT!!!!

How many times do I have to explain how this **** works!!!!! Can you guys not read? This is a business & it's run like one....Just like an insurance company....there is a claim, investigation, & then payment!!!
Just 1 day I want you guys in my shoes!!! One day!! You'd be crying like a baby.

BTW....I am very familiar w/ the 01-05 civic transmissions.........I've had mine out at least 3 times...I also have a rebuilt one installed now.......so I am very familiar......so before you open your mouth you need to open a tranny chump. Flimsy you say? That transmission is built to handle 100whp to the wheels...it's for a civic dude...not a corvette.....you get what you pay for....you paid for an econobox...you got an econobox transmission.

So for all you techanically inclined out there............people make cars...people aren't perfect...cars are perfect.....new cars have the same parts an older car does.....those same parts can break just the same.....this is life....**** happens.....

I can tell that Green is really the only one who has a clue how this business works....the automotive business is one of the most difficult & stressfull fields I have ever seen. You guys should try it some day....then maybe you'll understand!

Bring me a car tomorrow w/ a distinctive problem that I can duplicate and I'll warranty it......until then continue to complain.

Infact I can't believe all these news stories & online complaints over this issue......what everyone should be throwing a fit about is the 05-07 civic sedan rear camber wear.....I see probably about 2-5 sedan civics a week w/ 15k-20k and extreme rear inner tire wear.....I've been seeing this issue ever since the new model civic came out....honda just came out with a rear camber correction kit a couple months ago.....however they are only paying for tires w/ 2/32nds tread & under....well most of these people have 5-6/32nds tread remaining because they're new cars.....so honda pretty much screwed everyone on tires....you wanna bitch about something...bitch about this!!! I never see anyone with an si in here......always the sedan 05-07 civics.............You don't see any patitions or news events on this do ya?

I am just the middle man who honda sometimes pays for warranty............I am here to help & fix the vehicle. I am here stuck in the middle of a bad situation. You as the customer is not making it any easier for me attacking me the way most customers do about this issue. I am here to help you get this resolved....sooo....if I were the customer I'd be nice to me.....I am the only ****er that's gonna help you out. People have forgotten this is a 2way street and I am a person too....not just a guy that wants to rip you off at the dealership....

I could go on for days about the problems in the car business............I'm going back to work.....I'm mad now.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

i work auto parts so i can relate. but if a customer has a problem, the way to make them happy is not to say there is no problem and that they are lying about it. this is how dealers get a bad wrap. i dont have alot of confidence when i ask a tech why my tranny is slipping and he tells me the aftermarket exhaust i added is making too much hp. or if i take my car in and when i get it back there is a big dent with oily fingerprints on it and on the tech sheet, thats the only dent circled and highlighted saying it was there before they worked on it (and not any of the other 10 dents all around the car). thats how you lose credibility. then i goto a shop and right away they agree with me and try to find solutions. in fact they were already on top of what i was suggesting with a tranny rebuild kit and they know quite a few cases where they had to replace 01-02 autos for the same 2->3 gear clutch pack problem. thats how you talk to a customer. you dont say oh, theres no problem or i drove it once and it didnt do it so theres no problem. and i really dont think all these people are making up their problems just so they can waste time and money out of their day to have something fixed thats not even broken. another case in point, my gas gauge would jump around all over the place, sometimes the light would come on and there was still 5 gallons in the tank. everyone else was telling me to make them change the fuel sender, i even had the tsb. but they wouldnt do it cause they cant duplicate it. wtf is that? the gauge isnt reading correct level, what else would it be? i finally had to talk to the manager, explain everything and why the sender was the only possibility, and finally they agreed to do it like it was some big job. and the car was brand new at the time. then i get the car back and it smells like a gas station cause the guy working on it spilled gas all over the back seat and decided the cushion would just cover it up. wasnt too happy about that either. i think the more you know about your car, the more you will hate going to the dealer. its actually the whole reason i started figuring out stuff for myself because i couldnt stand dealing with them either not fixing what i wanted or telling me theres no problem when there obviously was. as soon as i started doing things myself, problems got solved. and its not until you get ahold of the honda service book that you realize just how little you need to know to work on cars. there is this cloud of mystery that most people have because they dont understand how stuff works. and the manual really makes things so easy giving step by step instructions and info. with a basic toolkit from walmart, you can do almost anything a mechanic can.

Mosfet32

Fosho,

I understand that you are in business and I understand that you will not get paid to repair a problem that you can duplicate.

I agree that Green's reponse was very rational and spot-on. Especially the part where he said "I do agree with the fact that they should take care of the problem"

You seem to be unwilling to accept that the problem exists. So in essence, you are calling all of the people who are experiencing this problem liars or fools. Your opinion on the subject is in contradiction with Honda's opinion, because they don't issue a TSB for a problem that has not reached a level of critical mass.

Speaking for myself, I can tell you that I am neither a liar or a fool. I am a very technically inclined person who has years of (admittedly) hobbyist experience in working on cars. I know how a manual gearbox works and I know that, no matter if it is a corvette or a civic, it should not be so hard to shove the stick into the 3rd gear slot. Nor should the stick pop back out of 3rd after you engage it!

Again, I am not attacking you. I understand your perspective. I also have experience in my industry with attempting to diagnose problems with medical instruments when i can not duplicate the customer complaint. It is frustrating indeed.

But there is no question about this problem. people don't like to waste hours of their lives going to dealers to try to resolve imaginary problems. The problem exists. it is well documented and a TSB has been created to address the issue.

There are already contless blogs on the internet with reports of people who have had the problem fixed and are now happy with the performance of the vehicle. I will be one of the people who gets the problem resolved, by following Green's advice and interfacing with my Honda dealer in a rational and polite manner. They will duplicate the problem and fix it. I am 100% confident about that.

It seems that you are dead set against even considering the fact that there really is a problem. You have already made up your mind that the problem can't exist. So me and all the other people who have this problem are idiots, liars, and fools. Honda is full of idiots and fools also, because they acknowledged the problem and created a TSB to deal with it.

Man, I'm glad you don't work for my local Honda dealer!

FoSho

Well I actually agree 100% w/ gearbox....it's not that I am dismissing the customer before I even work on...you guys really think I would still have a job or gross 40k a month for my dealership? Not happening.

I listen carefully to ever detail, I ask alot of question to better understand my customers, I test drive with em, whatever they need. I am here to help....I don't just turn people away like you guys think, wait, I guess you guys are here everyday?

This is how it goes..............duplicate complaint first, diagnosis 2nd, & repair third. If I can't complete the first step how am I gonna do the 2nd? It's like saying you got hit & run, reporting it to your insurance, & just expecting them to pay for it....no way are they just gonna cut you a check. There are procedures for everything. I don't think you guys understand still. So you guys are saying that everyone that walks in w/ a tsb should get a transmission rebuilt? Thats why it's a tsb & not a recall. Because not all vehicles are affected. Obviosuly I have not seen one of these affected vehicles yet or I would have fixed it. Thats money in the bank.......SO NO I HAVE NOT MADE UP MY MIND, I AM TELLING YOU WHAT I HAVE SEEN OR EXPIERENCED

As far as dealerships go....I know exactly what gearbox is talking about. I grew up without alot of money. When I finnaly managed to get a car I had no money or no means of having someone fix it. It was me and my craftsman tool set figuring things out. I couldn't afford jiffy lube if I wanted! This is how I got started in this field.... and yes....just because we are a dealership does not mean we don't have idiots.....Yes there are people out there who think mufflers cause transmission issues, thats not my fault, or honda's.......just stupid people working at professional places.....

One thing I have learned in this business......I am never right....

greeen01civic4d

iTrader: (7)

TSBs, let me reiterate, are NOT because the problem is massive, or reaching critical mass or whatever u said, it is simply a diagnostic tool, there are thousands of TSBs out there for cars, it is simply an aid, i used to think the same way u do, and belive me, its not the case, because if u are out of warranty, and u say, well this has a TSB on it, the dealer will still make u pay for it, period, it is not anything even close to a recall, just something to help techs, i agree with fosho, if there is no duplication, there is no problem. its like going to the doctor, and saying my foot hurt yesterday, but doesnt today, now fix it

Mosfet32

Green, I realize a TSB is not the same thing as a recall. But TSB's are not issued *****-nilly. A TSB is only issued when there is a PROBLEM to be corrected. The reason I have raised the issue of the TSB to FoSho is because it is an admission by the manufacturer that the problem is big enough to warrant a document providing specific instructions to the dealer on how to handle it. And it is a very useful tool for the consumer to find details about the problem and confirmation that the mfgr has acknowledged the problem and has a prescribed fix for it.

From edmunds.com, the definition of a TSB:

"a technical service bulletin is actually an advisory issued by a manufacturer for use by dealership service departments. Most TSBs are released during the first year that a vehicle is offered or the year following a redesign," our road test editor, Neil Chirico (a former service advisor for Ford, Lincoln-Mercury and Volvo), observed - in order to address areas that might have been overlooked when designing the car.

These bulletins differ from recalls in that they are not considered safety or emissions issues and they usually apply only when your vehicle is in its warranty period (whereas a recall is "open" until the work has been performed). TSBs frequently (but not always) address a recurring problem and include illustrated instructions for repair, a list of the parts needed, the warranty status and the labor charge"

To all of those who are experiencing the Civic SI 3rd gear problem. Print the TSB, take it to your dealer, and ask them nicely to test drive the vehicle and try to duplicate the problem. If they can't duplicate the problem, make sure your complaint is on file, and take it back again in due time. If the problem is real (as it is in my case) it will eventually be duplicated by the dealer. The TSB will let them know that you have done your homework and are aware that this is not a one-off issue with your car.

greeen01civic4d

iTrader: (7)

not to quote myself, but that is, i believe, what i said...

FoSho

Bingo!

Mosfet32

green, you are indeed correct. I agree with your comments completely :-)

jemje2006

seems like honda can't find a way to solve this problem.
it's very clear point, money. if they do it for free to all customers, they lose lot of money. i have read enough stories about 3rd problems on SI and rsx. maybe s2000 will be my choice. gear problem is a real headache.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

yeah how will they fix it, replacing the trans obviously wont help unless they redesign it or find a way to fix the old one.

Mosfet32

All - I put the new Honda MTF in today. I have read a ton about Amsoil and how great it is for resolving or improving the 3rd gear issue. But I didn't want to risk doing anything that would void my warranty - so I can get this tranny replaced or rebuilt under warranty when the time comes.

So far the new Honda MTF gave me an immediate improvement. The car shifts smoother all around now and the 3rd gear issue seems significantly better. I will post more as I drive the car over the next few weeks.

greeen01civic4d

iTrader: (7)

use of another oil is not possible to detect, id go with amsoil if its gonna help, as they cannot prove anything and will not void ur warranty

Mosfet32

Update on new honda MTF. Been driving the car for 4 days now with the new honda MTF. The shifting is better than it was before, but there is still a big difference between 3rd gear and any other gear. Just much more effort required to engage 3rd and a definite "notch" when engaging. However, i have not had any grinding or pop-outs since I put in the new MTF. I will continue for a few thousand miles and then maybe change to Amsoil to see if there is any additional improvement with the synthetic MTF

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

put some LC20 in the tranny from lubecontrol.com i bet it would help even more. i have it in my auto tranny and cant even feel the shifts anymore.

LTFA182

My 07 SI's 3rd gear grinds, is hard to engage, and has popped out if that means anything. BUT...I told Honda and they agreed to fix it for free and they told me they do 2-3 06-07 SI's a month. He said before they didnt have a fix and thats why they didn't fix it, but now they do.

emunity

OK for the record. I bought my Honda Civic SI in February 2007. A week later I noticed irregularities with the 3rd gear. I took it to the service center and they said there was no problem.

It does exactly what its doing for other who have the problem. it pops out of 3rd gear and its difficult at times to put into third gear.

This is extremely dangerous when you are moving it quickly because you can rev your engine because of it or even cause an accident.

I have owned 3 prior 5 speed manual EX civics and never had any issues with any of them.

I knew after one week there was an issue with this SI. I basically wanted to return it because of the trans.

They would not take it back too late according to them and the service center said no problems. Most service techs working for dealers are horrible. Don't know their a....s from the hole in the ground.

Month after month I took my car in complaining of this issue and all documented. Not until March 2008 did Grand Honda tell me my trans was bad.

It took them over 12 months to realize this.

I bought my car at Community Honda in Oak forest Illinois. I work close to Grand Honda where I get my oil changes and they told me its bad.

I called American Honda Customer service telling them I wanted a new car. We know the results from that of course. Anyhow the best they will do it drop a brand new Transmission in.

So I decided to wait it out a bit and got a letter to trade my car in for a new civic and my payments would only be slighter higher.

I am going from 200 a month to 230 a month and I am downgrading to an EXL instead.

I am still debating on what to do. While I was with sales I had my car in for an oil change and to rotate the tires.

I complained of other issues with the car. The Door handle would stick out at 90 degrees at times. The electrical will do crazy things at times. For example I found my dash light on after turning my car off. Only The dash light and the only way to have it turned off was to start the car and turn the car off. I actually had to do this twice to make the dash light go off. Don't tell me there is a delay I know this already.

I told sales I would think about the offer. After riding off I noticed a rumble sound and took my car back to service. They removed the tires and upon careful inspection they saw wear marks on the inside of the rear tires which were moved to the front after rotation. I made them put the tires back to the rear for now until I contact the Service manager on Monday.

So there you go another problem with the car. I never hit any pot holes and drive on the highway.

This car is a lemon to the MAX. The SI is a piece of sh....t

I might get a lawyer and make them exchange the car and go to a EXL instead.

I have documented all of this with Honda and in my opinion I should be entitled to some kind of modified lemon law.

I knew the trans was a problem the first week and they did nothing and blew it off.

By the way the service tech told me that there will be a recall soon on the 2007 SI transmissions.

All I want out of this is another vehicle. Even if they put a new trans in I don't trust the car any longer. I want to go back to the EX or the new EXL.

People on this thread ignore the moron service guy that sais there is no problem with the car. He will eat his words when he sees the recall and when he sees my lawsuit.


Edited:

TSB. It was around April, Grand Honda in Illinois looked up and found a TSB for me and printed it out. They said the stock Transmission fluid may have been the problem so they changed it. it seem to be ok for a couple of weeks but the problem soon came back.