scott37300

I don't know if I would jump to trading in the car. But I would do a couple more drain and fills with a couple hundred miles in between each one. Honda says the filter is lifetime but I would change it with 52K on it. It's under 20 bucks.

krazymatt

Where do you find it for 20? I just called my dealership and they said over 30. Where is this filter? So from now on I should do it every 20k miles?- Or what do you all think? Thanks

CraigW

iTrader: (1)

http://www.hondapartsnow.com/genuine...0-PLR-003.html

I talked to the dealers top tech about the filter...He said, he had never changed one, and doesn't think it is a service item.

My interval for drain & refill is 25k miles.

scott37300

I found it just a few posts below this one, which also has a picture of where it is located!

25430-PLR-003007001FILTER (ATF) 20.0214.01

Honda's list price is only 20.02 so not sure why your dealer would charge 30 bucks. You can order it online for 14.01 plus shipping.

I'm sure mindbomber or gearbox will be able to answer your question better, they have more experience than me. But if I were you I would drive your car for a couple hundred miles and then do another drain and fill and change the filter. Maybe even do a third drain and fill before changing the filter. Personally I changed my fluid for the first time at 30K, just bought car at 24K miles. I am going to drive it for maybe another 8K or so and then do another drain and fill and filter change. Then I will do 15-20K intervals. Some recomend 10K intervals.

Too Tall

Krazymat - I don't understand what you mean by changing it (engine oil?) every 5,000 miles, but then changed it (transmission fluid?) for the first time at 52k miles?

Whatever you do, don't try Amsoil and them come back and blame Amsoil for blowing up your transmission.

54k miles without a fluid change and transmission fluid that looks like coffee is not a good sign. At this point all you can do is take your best guess. It will cost $100 to change oil and filter if you do it yourself. You might get lucky and be OK after that.

According to previous posts, it will cost about $3000 to have the transmission rebuilt with bullet proof parts. Trading in the car will probably cost you more than that. If you like the car, and don't have other major expenses pending, it may pay off to take your chances with a fluid change, all the fluid, not just 2 qts, and see how long the transmission lasts after that. If it doesn't, you will need find a good local transmission rebuilder. But a strong transmission should last 150,000 miles, under normal driving conditions. Its your gamble either way.

I did google Civic auto transmission problems and read through a bunch of them. Evidently, there are a lot more problems with Civic auto transmissions than using full synthetic fluids. Since the "search" feature does not work on this forum, I could not look into past threads.

My original question at the start of this thread was about automatic transmission fluid change intervals. I have learned a lot about Civic transmissions by the responses to this thread. Thanks, I appreciate the information. Especially since the dealers I talked to are doing improper oil changes.

However, I have not yet read a report that provided enough back ground information and a detailed enough failure analysis to be able to distinguish if the problem was related to prior problems with the transmission or the full synthetic fluid itself. If you have a link to one, with details, I would like to see it. If full synthetic fluid was so incompatible with Civic transmissions, ALL transmissions with synthetic fluid would be having the same problem, and that is not happening.

For example, in the link a few posts below a guy reported his 93 Civic blew the torque converter at about 50,000 miles after changing to Amsoil. My wife's 95 Civic was totaled in an accident at 95,000 miles with Amsoil in engine and transmission. It still drove like new. That discrepancy appears to be common. (And the 95 didn't use nearly as much engine oil as the 2007 with 27,000 miles.)

It was a bit scary to read Amsoil's response was that the torque converter was previously damaged. They can use that excuse virtually anytime, which makes their warranty useless, unless you hire a very good failure analysis expert.

In my opinion, most of the problems with Civic automatic transmissions can be minimized with a full synthetic tranny fluid, assuming it is recommended by the synthetic fluid manufacturer, proper maintenance procedures are used, and you make the change with low miles on the car.

There are differences in tranny fluids, and also between different brand synthetic fluids. As I stated before, I really don't mean to be be an advocate for Amsoil. "Amsoil" is easier to type than "full synthetic fluid," and is the brand I have the most experience with.

I have always had good experiences with Amsoil, but I understand it's benefits and limitations. Compared to my other toys, my wife's Civic is at the bottom of the list, so I have only minimal experience with it.

Fortunately, I can afford to take the "risk" of changing to Amsoil. It's my wife's car, if it blows up, she has to pay for it. If you can't afford the risk, 10,000 mile drain and refill of Z1 oil is a really good idea.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

bottom line, i wouldnt risk putting a synthetic like amsoil into an old auto trans. the fluid can cause failure, not because the fluid is bad but because of how it reacts with the internal parts and the deposits. even new honda fluid can cause this if you replace too much old fluid with new. thats why i only recommend one drain and fill at a time (per year). otherwise you could get too much new stuff in there and it can cause slipping by loosening old deposits and clogging filter.

MindBomber

Dealerships are very expensive, I paid $27 for a dipstick that cost $7 online and I'm a regular customer. It should be located under your battery, since I have a 7g I can't go outside and check for you though, but you should be able to find it with a little effort.

It's not a service item, Honda rates their transmission filters to last the lifetime of the vehicle like most manufacturers; one theory on why it's not a service item is that some models still have the filters inside the transmission case and the filters are all fundamentally the same design. I would change the filter when you do the drain and fill at somewhere between 10-25k miles depending on your driving style.
There are two different theories you could apply to the point at which you change the filter, changing the fluid will absolutely result in some debris from the casing entering the fluid and changing the filter a couple hundred miles after a single drain and fill means you would catch most of those particles before changing the filter. This would maximize the effectiveness of the filter long term.
I would change the filter at the same time that I do a drain and fill for two reasons. The first being that I'm cheap and don't want to pay for fluid to do two drain and fills, I have tuition to pay so I have good reason to be cheap. The second reason being that I would want the maximum possible filtration performance from my filter once the new particles are entering the fluid stream, one of the major causes of transmission failure is filters restricting the flow of fluid.

MindBomber

Search function is up and running, it crashed during some site maintenance and was up and running in less than a day.

I'll just throw this out there: Z-1 is a brand new product being offered by Honda and it is designed for 2011+ models, although Honda has designed it to be back compatible they also advised dealerships to keep DW-1 in stock since older transmissions may react poorly to full synthetic fluid. If you make the change your doing it at your own risk since very little information on z-1 in older transmissions is available at the moment.

Too Tall

Just to throw another wrench into the gear box ...

Just because it's new, does not mean it is any better. It is entirely possible Honda spec'd Z1 to cut 5 cents a quart in manufacturing costs.

Is there any documentation to prove Z1 is synthetic, full or blend, or what the base stock is?

MindBomber

Damn North American laws allowing blended synthetics to be labeled full synthetic eh..

I'll look into it and see if I can find some definitive information on DW-1, it's so new not many people outside of Honda know much about it at this point.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

mindbomber switched them around. the new full synthetic is DW-1, the old semi synthetic is Z1.

krazymatt

Thanks for the input. I always changed my engine oil when the engine oil life was at 30-40% so I never really paid much attention to the other service items. My bad, but Honda should list on their manual exactly a mileage to change the trans fluid such as 20k-30k miles and NOT some sort of equation where 3=trans drain and refill or whatever. They have a decent system for engine oil with 0%-100% but trans fluid is 3= or some crap that reminds me of algebra. Why can't they just say every 20k for severe or 30k for normal or something other manufacturers use. Oh well it's too late. $3000 bucks for a transmission is pretty darn crazy in my opinion. Especially where I live that there is NO trustworthy mechanics. At least if I take a hit on a trade I can absorb that hit with a 6 year loan instead of a sudden $3k trans bill. I'm not sure I'll go for another Civic with a super delicate POS transmission. Even my dad's 2000 Accord v6 auto has like 250k on the original transmission and it's been drained and refilled like twice and and it still runs!

krazymatt

I was thinking and searching online and there's a decent supply of salvage yard 8th gen transmissions online for a decent price with a warranty, then I'd change it out myself if worse comes to worse. Theres no way no how I'm going to hand over $3k to a mechanic period. I don't trust any mechanic anywhere. The only thing I pay for is machine work.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

well to be honest, i really havent heard much problem with the 06+ trans. its possible they got their act together and started improving the parts. it wasnt common for 01 civics to have trans problems in 10-20k miles. but i havent even seen any 06 civic with problems and its been 5 yrs now.

krazymatt

So there is some chance my car might be okay as long as I change my fluid a couple more times now, then every 25k even though what came out of my trans. this past weekend almost looked like engine oil?

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

yeah the first drain and fill will always be the worst because of the trans breaking in everything and alot of junk will float around with the fluid looking dark.

Too Tall

The dealer I visited said the dash light comes on between 30 and 40,000 miles. The sooner you change the oil, the better the chances. Multiple drains will be necessary.

MindBomber

Don't worry to much, just do a couple drain and fills over the period of a couple thousands miles to get the fluid red again and change the filter. I bet you'll notice a significant improvement in shifting.

CraigW

iTrader: (1)

I agree just do a 1 or 2 more & fairly soon & keep a close ear & eye on it.

Over at the 8th site all I've seen as far as transmissions is grinding in the MT models, virtually nothing bad on the autos.

I love my 5 speed auto.

Too Tall

I just changed my auto tranny fluid. 2007, 26,500 miles, 90% city driving, wife's car, not raced or driven hard.

Z1 fluid is nothing special in terms of long term transmission protection. I doubt it has any significant synthetic formulation. It looked a lot darker in the pan than on the dip stick. No better than my 1968 Olds 442 back in the 1970's, or any better than the automatics I've had since then.

After the oil change, it did seem to shift more positive and a bit smoother. Not a huge difference, but just enough to notice. Another indication the fluid was at the end of its life.

I did 3 drain and refills with Z1, and ran through the gears with the wheels off the ground. It takes AT LEAST 3 drain and refills, 2 1/3 qts at a time, to flush out most of the old oil. Run from any service guy who says only one drain and refill at 30,000 miles is good enough.

Doing a single drain and refill every 10,000 miles is really good idea if you use Z1. Do not wait until the dash warning code comes on, that is too late.

My next question is how do I reset the computer that calculates the change intervals and provides the "3" code?

MindBomber

Press and hold the set/reset button untill it flashes then let go, about 10-15 seconds.Then press and hold it again and it should reset itself.

krazymatt

Your points make total sense. What I'm thinking, once I do the three drain and refills and possibly the filter to where I get the oil nice and red, I think one drain and refill every other engine oil change might be a good idea to keep the fluid in clean condition.

Too Tall

I would definitely change the filter.

98blaster+4

total newb question.....my g/f has an 07 civic lx auto/slushbox. it has had a few clunky starts when taking off from a stop sign(she doesnt like to actually stop all the way before laying into it to go again).
is there a filter to change under the battery on this model?
when i do a drain and refill, how many times should i repeat this process for the first time? and how often should i do the drain refill cycle?
i know nothing has been cared for before i came into the picture, but i know she cant trade right now or afford to get a new car on trade in.
any advice?

Too Tall

How many miles on it? If 30,000 miles or more, may as well do 3 drain and refills. Read this thread from the beginning, lots of different opinions.

CraigW

iTrader: (1)

The 8th gens (and 7ths to an extent) Don't take well to applying accelerator after slowing, you have to be pretty gentle or it will jerk quite hard.

The atf service will depend on current mileage.

98blaster+4

well i have actually read this particular thread start to finish a couple of times and still dont see much about the intervals except 10,000 miles. but on the first time i do it , is it recomended to drain refill once and wait? how long do i wait in between?
i believe the car has 108,000 or so and has never had any trans fluids changed.

all i have done to the car is routine oil changes with mobil 1 full synthetic, and filters every time, and switched to denso iridiums, but im due again for another plug change and i may switch it back to ngk since they are my preferred brand but werent available at the time.
and does my model year have a trans filter?
i am thinking if it does i may change it after the first drain refill cycle then again on the third. any thoughts on this? i just dont want it to **** the bed untill she can get another rig next season

Too Tall

I seriously doubt any transmission with Z1 can last that long without a change or two along the way. How many miles has she owned it?

If you follow the proper procedure, changing the tranny fluid can only help, not hurt, the transmission. Problem is, there is a lot of debate, and misinformation, including from dealers about how to, and when to, change the tranny fluid.

Regardless of everyone's love affair with Z1, it is NOT a long life fluid. Doing one drain and refill every 10,000 miles is the safe thing to do. However, if you have more than 30,000 miles on any of the left over oil in the tranny from doing only one drain and refill, the safest thing to do is 3 or 4 drain and refills in a short period of time.

The next big question I have raised is how much old contaminated fluid leaves varnish on the clutches and the possibility changing to clean oil, especially if you use a full synthetic oil, can dissolve off the varnish to quickly. No one knows yet if this will be a problem if switching to DW-1 on high mileage tranny's, Honda seems to think you will be OK.

Changing the filter, if there is one, is the safest thing to do.

98blaster+4

dude shes the original owner. and i came on here because the tranny is kinda funny but it seems that the thing it does are not at all out of the ordinary from everybody elses. up here in vermont e do a lot of mountain driving too which i would think is harder on the trans than where she used to be(worcester ma).
i have plans for a few drain refills and a filter change, i may even change the filter every time i do a drain refill just to be safe....figuring its gone this far on the same oil when i put new in it will have a TON of **** to come loose.

CraigW

iTrader: (1)

At 108k on original fluid I would be careful of how you handle it. And, I would say it is a good candidate for a filter or 2 (let us know how difficult the filter is) You kind of have a situation imo... I would maybe go with drain and refill + filter, then wait a while before the next batch of the same.

Are you going Z-1 or DW-1 ??