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However Science is a root of far more evil than religion. Just look at Hitler and his experiments. Just look at the ruined environment. Just look at all the crap that this world has to offer. You can't have morality without religion, ever. And science has a way of tossing all morality away.
However Science is a root of far more evil than religion. Just look at Hitler and his experiments. Just look at the ruined environment. Just look at all the crap that this world has to offer. You can't have morality without religion, ever. And science has a way of tossing all morality away.
Damn, I'm going to have to disagree with you there.
First off, Science is nothing more than knowledge, or the thirst there of. As far as I know, knowledge is a good thing. You are speaking of technology and that is not a science. Science is used in developing technology but it is not at fault for anything caused by technology.
Secondly, to say that you can't have morality without religion is just, for lack of a better word, WACK! Morality is a sense of right and wrong and it can easily be learned through experience (i.e. the golden rule). Human development naturally produces morality since it is concerned with individual survival and group well-being. That is why inbreeding is immoral. The offspring tend to be higher in genetic defects and both worsenes the gene pool and necesitates group time to care for that individual rather than spend that time hunting, gathering, or farming, for example.
However Science is a root of far more evil than religion. Just look at Hitler and his experiments. Just look at the ruined environment. Just look at all the crap that this world has to offer. You can't have morality without religion, ever. And science has a way of tossing all morality away.
this is right on top there as one of the more ignorant statements posted on 7thGen. im not really surprized that you would make this statement, however, because you typically make such statements.
science is not the root of evil, the people that practice it are. the same with religion, its not the religion that is the root of evil...its the extremists that do horrible things in the name of religion. how did science ruin environment? its not science, its the people that dont care about the environment. the people have the capacity to use cleaner technologies, but for whatever reason they don't.
as silverdevil has said countless times before, in multiple other threads, most likely to you as well, morality is not a result of religion. morality comes from a number of different things. i dont have to be religious to be moral, and if you think that this is not true, then thats your prerogative.
science and morality are not connected. neither is religion and morality. morality is a social construct, it is a set of beliefs that are taught to us by the social organizm that raises us.
You're right, pbfoot. I also wanted to say that the big difference between science and religion is that religion teaches us to blindly follow what we're told while science requires questioning and reasoning.
If it were only for religion, and not for science, we'd still believe that the world is flat, it's the center of the universe, and that if it stopped spinning we'd all fly off. Science has also brought us countless cures for sicknesses that used to be attributed to evil spirits taking over the body.
We'd still be living in the caveman era were it not for science. Hell, we wouldn't even have agriculture without it.
Okay, maybe I have to break it down a little bit for people to understand.
First off, my mistake, it's not science but technology and the greed behind it that have wrecked a lot of the destruction on earth.
Moving on...
If you believe in nothing but science, you are here and you live your life and you die, and there are no rewards or punishments because there is no afterlife, then you are far more likely to live a life based on your own base desires and wants, and care for nothing of what others want.
If you believe that there is an afterlife, and there is a system of rewards or punishments involved, then:
1. The system is good, and you believe that doing good for others yields a reward, whereas you will refrain from doing bad because you likewise fear a punishment.
or
2. The system is bad, and requires that you conquer other religions through the sword, you punish minor wrongs with death or dismemberment, you subject inferiors to wickedness and you question nothing because of your unwavering faith in your own broken system.
I'd like to knock some of your guy's heads that think that religion and science are mutually exclusive, though.
Okay, maybe I have to break it down a little bit for people to understand.
First off, my mistake, it's not science but technology and the greed behind it that have wrecked a lot of the destruction on earth.
Moving on...
If you believe in nothing but science, you are here and you live your life and you die, and there are no rewards or punishments because there is no afterlife, then you are far more likely to live a life based on your own base desires and wants, and care for nothing of what others want.
If you believe that there is an afterlife, and there is a system of rewards or punishments involved, then:
1. The system is good, and you believe that doing good for others yields a reward, whereas you will refrain from doing bad because you likewise fear a punishment.
or
2. The system is bad, and requires that you conquer other religions through the sword, you punish minor wrongs with death or dismemberment, you subject inferiors to wickedness and you question nothing because of your unwavering faith in your own broken system.
I'd like to knock some of your guy's heads that think that religion and science are mutually exclusive, though.
You don't believe that one can be moral fearing earthly punishments like shame, jail, physical castigations, or even death? If you think that fear is the motivator for morality, then people would fear earthly punishments more than a future, eternal one.
The same applies to why people smoke, eat fatty foots, or do drink heavily. The effects of these things are not immediate and, thus, people don't consider them as much. If this is to be true, then the fear of eternal punishment is secondary to those received here on earth.
I do not believe in an eternal life, or punishment or reward after death. Yet, I behave according to what many consider to be good moral standings because I don't want to be thought of as an outsider and because I do not want to become Bubba's sex slave in prison.
Good point, you can indeed have a sense of morality even if you don't believe there is an eternal punishment. You fear an earthly punishment.
However, there are people that fear earthly punishment so much that they "aint gonna go quietly". They don't have anything to lose, in their mind, if they go out with a bang. They don't have a problem with a string of murders and rapes and then finally a suicide or a shoot-out with cops. And the only thing holding back many people like this is the belief in an afterlife.
If your back's against the wall, and you got nothing to lose, what are you going to do? People wind up in trouble. It's a fact of life. Just because you are an athiest and have some morals doesn't mean that every athiest has morals.
Good point, you can indeed have a sense of morality even if you don't believe there is an eternal punishment. You fear an earthly punishment.
However, there are people that fear earthly punishment so much that they "aint gonna go quietly". They don't have anything to lose, in their mind, if they go out with a bang. They don't have a problem with a string of murders and rapes and then finally a suicide or a shoot-out with cops. And the only thing holding back many people like this is the belief in an afterlife.
If your back's against the wall, and you got nothing to lose, what are you going to do? People wind up in trouble. It's a fact of life. Just because you are an athiest and have some morals doesn't mean that every athiest has morals.
You're right. That doesn't mean that every religious person has morals, either. Just because you believe in an afterlife doesn't mean that your instincs to defend yourself (i.e. shoot it out with the cops) won't kick in.
The Pope, who is probably the #1 Chrisitan in a lot of people's eyes, is afraid of dying. Why else would he be so worried about security and traveling in a bullet-proof glass bubble? If he's afraid to die, what chance do the rest of us have?
In my eyes, the Pope is nothing. He's a figurehead of a country and a political movement that controls a billion people. He's not a religious figure, he's a political figure. Catholics are responsible for millions of people dead... Christian, Muslim, Jewish... White, Black, Spanish, Indian, Filipino... doesn't matter what race or color or creed or religion, the catholic church is responsible for many of them dead. The Catholic church is the pinacle of everything that is wrong with a religion. Radical Muslims outpace them in sheer thirst for blood, but Islam doesn't have a figurehead like the Pope that can call the shots.
I am not good because of the fear of an earthly punishment.
It just so happens doing it the polite/nice/moral way is almost always the easiest way in the long run. Being nice and building bridges always helps.
As far as your comment on the pope. He does not control a billion people. I was raised catholic and still fake it for the holidays. I have never heard a Catholic praise the pope or say he is so smart. Its kinda like the president. Everyone thinks he is this and that but when he comes to your town you would go shake his hand and smile. Think about abortion. Roman Catholics are 100% against any form of abortion. Yet Roman Catholics vote Democrat. Yeah Catholics are in lock step with the pope.
Last edited by nick95673 : 09-29-2006 at 02:31 PM.
Not all Catholics are pope-fearing, every sunday catholics. It's true.
But to be fair, you are a former catholic, living in California. California is less catholic than the rest of the US, and the US is not very catholic compared with many areas of the world. Go to Spain or France of Mexico or South America... and they are quite a bit more zealous of their religion and of the pope. To them, the local priest has actual magical powers and can turn a cracker in the the actual body of Jesus Christ, which you then swallow. Someone that has that power is someone you respect, and he's something like twelve levels below the Pope. So you aren't exactly the best example when it comes to the influence of Catholocism (sp).
Bottom line: Religion isn't the cause of all evil, humans are naturally evil enough, religion can be used to make people more moral or less moral, but morality is not exclusively an attribute of religion, although it usually does help.
If you believe in nothing but science, you are here and you live your life and you die, and there are no rewards or punishments because there is no afterlife, then you are far more likely to live a life based on your own base desires and wants, and care for nothing of what others want.
you dont think that there are selfless people in this world (who happen to be not religious) who do good deeds and help people because they actually believe in helping others, and the act of helping or knowing that theyve made someones life better is reward enough? you dont think this happens?
Quote:
If you believe that there is an afterlife, and there is a system of rewards or punishments involved, then:
1. The system is good, and you believe that doing good for others yields a reward, whereas you will refrain from doing bad because you likewise fear a punishment.
IMO, this is a selfish reason to do good. because if you do things out of fear, you are not doing good for the sake of doing good. you are doing good so that you are better off in "the end".
Quote:
or
2. The system is bad, and requires that you conquer other religions through the sword, you punish minor wrongs with death or dismemberment, you subject inferiors to wickedness and you question nothing because of your unwavering faith in your own broken system.
I'd like to knock some of your guy's heads that think that religion and science are mutually exclusive, though.
i dont really understand what you are saying with this. it sounds like all the people in this category are violent fundamentalists, and fundamentalists have a very extreme belief in their own "system" and think that everyone else is wrong. so your statment kind of goes against itself.
no one said science and religion are mutually exclusive. we are saying that fundamentalists in any of the fields do more bad than good for society. there have been plenty of religious scientists and plenty of scientific theologians. the point is hearing everyone out and listening to REASON and not blindly following a dogma or a faith.
