Go Back   Honda Civic Forum > OFF TOPIC > Off Topic > Political Discussion
Reload this Page

It's gonna be a war and we're all invited

Political Discussion A place to hold political debates and general discussion. Please remember to always respect the opinions of other members and above all else, be civil.


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-08-2006   #1 (permalink)
Pharoh
Bobaganoosh!
Hey! Look At Me!! I'm a Supporting Member!!
 
Pharoh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Poco, B.C. Canada
Age: 33
Posts: 26,863
Pharoh has much to be proud ofPharoh has much to be proud ofPharoh has much to be proud ofPharoh has much to be proud ofPharoh has much to be proud ofPharoh has much to be proud ofPharoh has much to be proud ofPharoh has much to be proud ofPharoh has much to be proud ofPharoh has much to be proud ofPharoh has much to be proud of
iTrader: (8)
Thumbs down It's gonna be a war and we're all invited

I'm guessing this is just the beginning of it and I'm also thinking that nothing will actually happen until the US elects a new President but at least this time it will have UN backing. So this time round we'll all be invited to go, just wondering what will happen to efforts (should they be ongoing) in Afghanistan and Iraq.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11724558/

MSNBC.com

Official says Moscow opposes Iran sanctions
Statement comes as momentum builds to refer Tehran to Security Council

BREAKING NEWS
MSNBC News Services
Updated: 12:49 p.m. ET March 8, 2006


UNITED NATIONS - Russia’s foreign minister suggested Wednesday that Moscow would oppose sanctions on Iran because such measures rarely achieve their intended goals.

Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov told reporters that the International Atomic Energy Agency must stay in the lead on Iran and be allowed to keep working inside the country. It was a clear indication that Russia does not want the U.N. Security Council heavily involved in the Iran issue.

Asked if Russia would consider approving sanctions against Iran, Lavrov said: “I don’t think sanctions as a means to solve a crisis have ever achieved a goal in the recent history, so ... we must rely on the professional advice of the IAEA, the watchdog of the nonproliferation regime.”

The United States, France and Britain have pushed for the Security Council to take a tough line on Iran, starting with a series of small steps that could lead to sanctions. But any such measures would have to get by Russia and China, which also have veto power in the council.

'No military solution'
Lavrov, who had met with U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan just moments before, also ruled out military action against Iran, saying Russia was “convinced that there is no military solution to this crisis.”

Lavrov’s comments hours after Iran threatened the United States with “harm and pain” for its role in hauling Tehran before the Security Council.

“The United States may have the power to cause harm and pain but it is also susceptible to harm and pain. So if the United States wishes to choose that path, let the ball roll,” it said in a statement obtained by Reuters on the sidelines of a U.N. nuclear watchdog board meeting in Vienna.

But the United States and its European allies said Iran’s nuclear intransigence left the world no choice but to ask for Security Council action. The council could impose economic and political sanctions on Iran.

The statements were delivered to the 35-member board of the International Atomic Energy Agency, which is meeting in Vienna to focus on Tehran’s refusal to freeze uranium enrichment.

At the United Nations, Lavrov responded to questions about whether the Security Council should raise the possibility of sanctions after the IAEA board sends the 15-nation U.N. body its latest report on Iran by saying the situation reminded him of the council’s consideration of whether Iraq had weapons of mass destruction before the U.S.-led 2003 invasion.

“It looks so deja vu, you know,” he said. “... I don’t believe we should engage in something which might become self-fulfilling prophecy.”

The United States and Britain led the invasion of Iraq without Security Council authorization after arguing that Baghdad was concealing weapons of mass destruction, but no nuclear, biological or chemical arms were later found.

Russia has been at the forefront of the Iranian nuclear talks over the past few months with a proposal to host Iran’s uranium enrichment program. The United States and the European Union back the idea, but Iran has demanded the right to conduct small-scale uranium enrichment at home.

U.S.: Statements further isolate Iran
The White House dismissed the rhetoric out of Tehran on Wednesday.

“I think that provocative statements and actions only further isolate Iran from the rest of the world,” White House press secretary Scott McClellan told reporters traveling with President Bush to hurricane-affected states in the Gulf Coast. “And the international community has spelled out to Iran what it needs to do.”

America’s ambassador to the United Nations — and the chief architect of U.S. policy in the Security Council once it takes up the Iran issue — said Iran’s comments reflected the menace it poses.

“Their threats show why leaving a country like that with a nuclear weapon is so dangerous,” John Bolton told the Associated Press in a phone call from Washington.

He classified the Iranian comments as “reflecting their determination to acquire weapons.”

On Tuesday, Vice President **** Cheney warned Tehran that Iran would face consequences if it persisted in defying the international community.

Iran has accused Washington of helping to engineer an IAEA board vote a month ago to report Tehran’s atomic project to the Security Council.

An Iranian collision course with the council looked more likely after Tehran brushed aside what EU diplomats said was a Russian offer to let it do some atomic research if it refrained from enriching uranium on an industrial scale for 7-9 years.

The United States and its key European Union allies— Britain, France and Germany — also rebuffed the idea because they said it would not have prevented Iran perfecting bomb technology via enrichment research.

Iran denies Western suspicions it is secretly trying to build atomic bombs, saying it seeks only nuclear-generated electricity.


'Oil weapon' worries
Tehran also said Wednesday it would have to review its oil export policy if world pressure mounted over its disputed atomic work.

Asked whether Iran would use an “oil weapon” as the world’s fourth largest crude oil exporter, Javad Vaeedi, deputy secretary of Iran’s Supreme National Security Council, told Reuters: “We will not (do so now), but if the situation changes, we will have to review our oil policies.”

Iran’s chief nuclear negotiator, Ali Larijani, had said on Sunday that Tehran was not keen to use oil as a weapon in its escalating row with the West “but if conditions change it could affect our decision.”

He did not specify what he meant by a change in conditions.

Iran is the fourth biggest oil exporter in the world and the second largest in the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries. There is broad international concern that isolating Iran could drive up already high oil prices.

The IAEA meeting is in effect the last step before the Security Council begins to consider Iran’s nuclear plans, which could lead to possible sanctions. Iran’s president said earlier Wednesday that his country will not back down from plans to enrich uranium domestically.

France, Germany and Britain, which spearheaded the Feb. 4 IAEA resolution clearing the path for Security Council action, warned that what is known about Iran’s enrichment program could represent only “the tip of the iceberg.”

“We believe that the time has ... come for the U.N. Security Council to reinforce the authority” of the IAEA and its board, said a draft statement by the three European countries.

Austria, which holds the EU presidency, expressed regret at Iran’s decisions to withhold “voluntary cooperation” from IAEA inspectors and resume uranium enrichment, which can be part of a process to make nuclear weapons.

The Austrian comments were made in a statement prepared for delivery on behalf of the European Union and nearly a dozen nonmember European nations.

Iranian president defiant
Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad remained defiant: “Our nation has made its decision to fully use nuclear energy for peaceful purposes and all have to give in to this decision made by the Iranian nation,” he said in Iran. “We have made our choice.”

His comments — and U.S. and Russian statements the day before rejecting any compromise that would allow Tehran to enrich uranium domestically — set the stage for Security Council action once the IAEA board meeting hears a report on the latest investigations into Iran’s nuclear program and debates the issue.

A senior Western diplomat familiar with the Security Council negotiations said Tuesday that permanent council members Britain and France already were preparing a statement “urging” Iran to re-impose a freeze on all enrichment.

The diplomat, who requested anonymity in exchange for discussing strategy on Iran, said the statement also would call on Iran to fully cooperate with IAEA inspectors trying to establish whether the country had ever tried to make such weapons — all requests made earlier by the board.

Reuters and The Associated Press contributed to this report.

© 2006 MSNBC.com
Pharoh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2006   #2 (permalink)
nick95673
Ultimate Member
 
nick95673's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Poop, poop, dance, lick
Age: 24
Posts: 3,037
nick95673 is a splendid one to beholdnick95673 is a splendid one to beholdnick95673 is a splendid one to beholdnick95673 is a splendid one to beholdnick95673 is a splendid one to beholdnick95673 is a splendid one to beholdnick95673 is a splendid one to beholdnick95673 is a splendid one to beholdnick95673 is a splendid one to beholdnick95673 is a splendid one to beholdnick95673 is a splendid one to behold
iTrader: (13)
What? sanctions worked against Saddam and Castro!
nick95673 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2006   #3 (permalink)
silverdevil
Ultimate Member
 
silverdevil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Washington, DC
Age: 32
Posts: 5,058
silverdevil is a glorious beacon of lightsilverdevil is a glorious beacon of lightsilverdevil is a glorious beacon of lightsilverdevil is a glorious beacon of lightsilverdevil is a glorious beacon of lightsilverdevil is a glorious beacon of light
iTrader: (5)
I won't be invited. I'll be safe and sound having just quit my job in the Air Force

This looks like a messy situation. I, honestly, don't care if Iran gets a bomb or not. So many countries have them that it really doesn't matter to me. The only reason we care is because they can destabilize the region and we're too hooked on oil for our own good. It would be an economic disaster.

However, if we're able to develop alternate means of fuel in the next 10 years (something very possible if it only took 3 years to complete the Atomic bomb) we won't have to worry about the destabilization of that region.

So, go out and buy yourself an electric or solar-powered car now.
silverdevil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2006   #4 (permalink)
ZapThyCat
7thGen Junkie
 
ZapThyCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Livermore, Cali
Age: 29
Posts: 21,351
ZapThyCat is a splendid one to beholdZapThyCat is a splendid one to beholdZapThyCat is a splendid one to beholdZapThyCat is a splendid one to beholdZapThyCat is a splendid one to beholdZapThyCat is a splendid one to beholdZapThyCat is a splendid one to beholdZapThyCat is a splendid one to beholdZapThyCat is a splendid one to beholdZapThyCat is a splendid one to behold
iTrader: (19)
***NewsFlash***

There will never be "alternative" fuel to oil. Oil is just too cheap; as soon as oil is gone, 90% of the human race will be toast....

As far as Iran having the bomb... they are just about the only people that are nutty enough to use it carelessly. Pakistan and India may have it, but they understand the MAD of using it, so they don't. Iran thinks that it's mission is "destined by god" and they don't care if they cause a mutually assured destruction. It's like the ultimate suicide bomb.

That's why no one wants them to have it...
ZapThyCat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2006   #5 (permalink)
nick95673
Ultimate Member
 
nick95673's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Poop, poop, dance, lick
Age: 24
Posts: 3,037
nick95673 is a splendid one to beholdnick95673 is a splendid one to beholdnick95673 is a splendid one to beholdnick95673 is a splendid one to beholdnick95673 is a splendid one to beholdnick95673 is a splendid one to beholdnick95673 is a splendid one to beholdnick95673 is a splendid one to beholdnick95673 is a splendid one to beholdnick95673 is a splendid one to beholdnick95673 is a splendid one to behold
iTrader: (13)
Iran is no worse than the U.S.S.R. Ask your parents or grandparents to think about the fear they had of the Russians. They will tell you that they feared the Russians much more than they currently fear the Iranians.
nick95673 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2006   #6 (permalink)
Danger Mouse
Tejas PimP
Hey! Look At Me!! I'm a Supporting Member!!
 
Danger Mouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Euless, Texas
Age: 34
Posts: 2,756
Danger Mouse is just really niceDanger Mouse is just really niceDanger Mouse is just really niceDanger Mouse is just really niceDanger Mouse is just really nice
iTrader: (3)
There is a little bit of a difference... You did not see Russians strapping on 50lbs of C-4 and ball berrings and walking into a crowded mall.

Iran + Nukes = Dead Isreal
Dead Isreal + Pissed America = Parking Lot named Iran



Honest, if Iran where to obtain a weapon of that level, they are dumb enough to use it on thier neighbors, mainly b/c they just do not care.
Danger Mouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2006   #7 (permalink)
silverdevil
Ultimate Member
 
silverdevil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Washington, DC
Age: 32
Posts: 5,058
silverdevil is a glorious beacon of lightsilverdevil is a glorious beacon of lightsilverdevil is a glorious beacon of lightsilverdevil is a glorious beacon of lightsilverdevil is a glorious beacon of lightsilverdevil is a glorious beacon of light
iTrader: (5)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZapThyCat
***NewsFlash***

There will never be "alternative" fuel to oil. Oil is just too cheap; as soon as oil is gone, 90% of the human race will be toast....
I think you're wrong. As I type, companies are spending billions trying to be the first to come out with an alternative fuel. Some are using wind power or tidal power (because they're renewable and the cost is only about 5% more than regular power) and the law of "economies of scale" dictates that the more people or companies that subscribe to this the cheaper it will become.

It might take a while to get people to change over their vehicles but there are tons of alternatives. For example, all diesel engines can run on regular, store-bought oil (vegetable, corn, olive, avocado, whatever). Did you know that? That's how they were designed. You don't have to use a petroleum-based diesel fuel.

You also state that oil will never run out (or that's what I interpret from your thinking that 90% of humanity will be toast by the time it runs out). May I direct you to this page: http://www.hubbertpeak.com/summary.htm

Yes, as oil gets harder to harvest people will start to use alternative such as the wax-laden heavy crude or extracting oil from rocks. But, the price will inevitably get to a prohibitive point and we'll be forced, by economics, to find alternatives. We need to be proactive and start to find them now even if they are more expensive because as oil grows in price, economies of scale will bring the others down.


As for Iran using the bomb, I do believe they would. However, I don't think military action to prevent them from getting it is right, either. Two wrongs don't make a right.
silverdevil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2006   #8 (permalink)
nick95673
Ultimate Member
 
nick95673's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Poop, poop, dance, lick
Age: 24
Posts: 3,037
nick95673 is a splendid one to beholdnick95673 is a splendid one to beholdnick95673 is a splendid one to beholdnick95673 is a splendid one to beholdnick95673 is a splendid one to beholdnick95673 is a splendid one to beholdnick95673 is a splendid one to beholdnick95673 is a splendid one to beholdnick95673 is a splendid one to beholdnick95673 is a splendid one to beholdnick95673 is a splendid one to behold
iTrader: (13)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danger Mouse
There is a little bit of a difference... You did not see Russians strapping on 50lbs of C-4 and ball berrings and walking into a crowded mall.

Iran + Nukes = Dead Isreal
Dead Isreal + Pissed America = Parking Lot named Iran



Honest, if Iran where to obtain a weapon of that level, they are dumb enough to use it on thier neighbors, mainly b/c they just do not care.
I forgot that more Russians were not killed in Russian concentration camps than Jews in Nazi camps. I forgot that Russia didn't accidentally kill more of their own people due to poor state run farming. I forgot that they didn't help fund Vietnam, and Korea. I forgot that they didn't try and ship tactical nukes to an island off the coast of Florida. I forgot that Russia didn't try to siege Berlin and cause America to run a non stop air lift.
Yeah your right Iran is way more retarded than Russia. However Iran did say that the US had "the power to cause harm and pain" but was "susceptible to harm and pain." "If the United States wishes to choose that path, let the ball roll." So you can vote in leaders who want to attack Iran. I just would rather not give Iranian stat funded terrorism on American soil a reason to start.

So yeah lets go in to the middle east and tell them to have free and open democratic societies. Then when they elect the group that does the most good for their movement the U.S. will ignore them. Then tell them that we wont listen to "those" elected leaders. Then lets tell them to have an open capitalist economy. Then when they build a very successful and well run company lets pass a law that says "yeah we like capitalism unless its from your area of the world." Then lets tell them not to build Nukes or develop nuclear technology unless they jump on board with our little nuclear non proliferation contract. In fact lets start the saber rattling. Then lets go to India and sign a contract with them that says yeah it doesn't really matter if you sign that stupid nuclear non proliferation contract we will still sale you nuke materials because you are not Arab.
nick95673 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2006   #9 (permalink)
Danger Mouse
Tejas PimP
Hey! Look At Me!! I'm a Supporting Member!!
 
Danger Mouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Euless, Texas
Age: 34
Posts: 2,756
Danger Mouse is just really niceDanger Mouse is just really niceDanger Mouse is just really niceDanger Mouse is just really niceDanger Mouse is just really nice
iTrader: (3)
^^ You know, Russia did stuff that they did, but.. they where smart enough "NOT" to try and use thier Nuclear Power as a way to make change, other than the same ways the American's and British have over the last 60 years. (As in not destroying shit with nukes)

Really, I could give two sh!ts about Iran, Iraq or Dubai. They are all a waste of space, just like 80% of Americans are.

I say kill em-all and let God sort them out. (Not really.. hahaha )

But honest, I could care less about the middle east.

Last edited by Danger Mouse : 03-09-2006 at 12:46 PM.
Danger Mouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2006   #10 (permalink)
nick95673
Ultimate Member
 
nick95673's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Poop, poop, dance, lick
Age: 24
Posts: 3,037
nick95673 is a splendid one to beholdnick95673 is a splendid one to beholdnick95673 is a splendid one to beholdnick95673 is a splendid one to beholdnick95673 is a splendid one to beholdnick95673 is a splendid one to beholdnick95673 is a splendid one to beholdnick95673 is a splendid one to beholdnick95673 is a splendid one to beholdnick95673 is a splendid one to beholdnick95673 is a splendid one to behold
iTrader: (13)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danger Mouse

But honest, I could care less about the middle east.

This is where we agree. I don't care about the rest of the world. However I do care about the 27% of my pay check I never see. I do care about the 7% extra I must pay on top of everything I want to buy that's actually fun. I do care about how government was formed for infrastructure yet whenever they want to build hospitals, bridges, roads, or increase police they must sale bonds. What happened to the 30%+ of my money you took from me to build that stuff? I don't care if other nations have totalitarian rule. As long as they execute their contractual agreements with America we should be happy. I could care less about a guy in Iran being tortured by his government. Or a gay being strung up for being gay. I just want my tax dollars to be spent at home.
nick95673 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2006   #11 (permalink)
ZapThyCat
7thGen Junkie
 
ZapThyCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Livermore, Cali
Age: 29
Posts: 21,351
ZapThyCat is a splendid one to beholdZapThyCat is a splendid one to beholdZapThyCat is a splendid one to beholdZapThyCat is a splendid one to beholdZapThyCat is a splendid one to beholdZapThyCat is a splendid one to beholdZapThyCat is a splendid one to beholdZapThyCat is a splendid one to beholdZapThyCat is a splendid one to beholdZapThyCat is a splendid one to behold
iTrader: (19)
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverdevil
I think you're wrong. As I type, companies are spending billions trying to be the first to come out with an alternative fuel. For example, all diesel engines can run on regular, store-bought oil Did you know that?
You also state that oil will never run out
As for Iran using the bomb, I do believe they would. However, I don't think military action to prevent them from getting it is right, either. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Sure, diesel engines can run on veg. oil, and gasoline engine can run on ethanol...
However, we are such incredible mass-consumers of oil, that there is NO WAY that we could produce enough of either to fuel our cars. It is, at best, a suppliment.
And I stated, that oil WILL run out. I never said it will never run out... and by "run out", I mean by all useful standards.
And yes, Iran very much would use the bomb.

With the whole of the international community, including Iran's lackey's Russia and China, dragging their feet, it may be up to the only nation that doesn't give a rip about international politics to stop this: Israel. They are, incidentally, the only ones that are really being targetted right now. They have the best spy organization on earth, they have the smartest people on earth, they have enough pull on major political powers, they have one bad-*** military, they have virtually unconditional support of hundreds of millions of people....

And they have one heck of a motivation.
ZapThyCat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2006   #12 (permalink)
modoman
I'll flip out and kill people.
 
modoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: ATX, Planet Beldar
Posts: 8,380
modoman has a brilliant futuremodoman has a brilliant futuremodoman has a brilliant futuremodoman has a brilliant futuremodoman has a brilliant futuremodoman has a brilliant futuremodoman has a brilliant futuremodoman has a brilliant futuremodoman has a brilliant futuremodoman has a brilliant futuremodoman has a brilliant future
iTrader: (6)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZapThyCat
***NewsFlash***

There will never be "alternative" fuel to oil. Oil is just too cheap; as soon as oil is gone, 90% of the human race will be toast....
lol @ that. i think you're gravely mistaken... though, most unfortunately for us and the rest of the world, oil will probably be around another 100 years.
modoman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

To avoid seeing this ad in our forum please register at CivicForums.com

By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features.


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Honda Civic Forum Replies Last Post
everyone is invited!! CLICK FOR INFO CiViCPrAnInG2k1 Off Topic 5 07-25-2005 06:31 PM
How do you get invited to this party? NWS IronFist Off Topic 29 01-10-2005 09:24 PM
Invited to join a club... XxSoVeReiGNxX Honda Civic Racing, Street Encounters and Competition Racing 7 06-11-2003 06:59 PM
why wasnt i invited to this car meet? riceboi Canada East 15 04-08-2003 11:39 AM
You guys think the war is gonna start tonight? SurrealCivic Canada East 30 03-21-2003 06:24 PM

  
User Login
Our Partners
used new
Top 10 Threads
Does this shirt offend you? (NWS language)
2012 ~ Niburu, Comet of Death:
Oil!
Senate Passes Immigration Legislation...
"george bush doesnt care about black people..."
illegal Immigration
Sad but True
Give a good reason for going in to Iraq.
May 1st Boycott
Would you be mad if there was no 2nd amendment?

Site Supporters


aluminum radiator

Honda car spoilers

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:18 PM.

   
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.0.0
All Content Copyright © 2007 CivicForums.com