Political DiscussionA place to hold political debates and general discussion. Please remember to always respect the opinions of other members and above all else, be civil.
Like the title says, do you think illegal immigrants are good or bad. I'm currently writing a persuasive speech and looking for information and opinions.
My view of the issue is that I don't care if they come to the US to make a better life for themselves, just do it legally so we can keep track of who is coming in and out of our country for sake of security. So you can say I am against it unless we are able to keep track of them like fingerprinting and stuff like that.
I've heard illegal immigrants are vital for the economy, is this true? I haven't found any evidence for or against this.
What do you all think? if you have any facts could u tell me where you got them from so I can cite the good stuff.
man i am completely against illegal immigration. I mean im sure that a lot of illegal immigrants that come into the U.S. work hard and do good jobs but it does not make it ok to come here illegally.
"The number of illegal immigrants coming into the U.S. from Mexico has reached such a level that it has had dramatic effects. For years, the border states of this nation have faced a steady increase in the costs they are forced to pay for providing benefits to illegal immigrants. The burden that they have placed on the national, state, and local governments has led to economic and social problems."
I think that the states are populated enough and Americans are keeping the country populated enough on our own.
GO BACK TO YOUR OWN COUNTRY YOU ILLEGAL BASTARDS, it would be one thing if they came over here LEGALLY, but no they have to sneak over here. Ok now that you know my stance I will tell you why. Ok well they come here and take our jobs. They are over running the state (Texas) and no one can understand them not even Mexicans. GTFO and never come back. Spanish will be the main language in America here in about 50 years or so. Sure they work hard, but they at the same time are mainly thugs. I say we set up land mines up and down the border and that will make them stop coming over. Or maybe tell them we put puranihas in the river, they will freak and never try.
If its bad like you guys say and Im sure your not alone (I feel the same way) why hasn't anything been done that is EFFECTIVE??
Some ppl hate them and some ppl love them. Ask farmers, ranchers, cleaning companies, and many, many other industries what they think and you will get a resounding "they are good!" Why? Because these industries are able to maintain themselves thanks to the cheap labor that illegal immigrants supply.
Would you really want to pay $2.50 for ONE apple? Probably not. But, the sad truth is, many crops would go unharvested if it were not for these illegal immigrants working on these farms. Many countries, not just the U.S., rely on illegal immigrants in order to maintain their agricultural societies. Nobody in industrialized countries wants to be a farm hand. People want to go to school and become lawyers, bankers, doctors, business owners, policemen, etc. I don't know of one person (who is not an illegal immigrant) who really wants to work in these back-breaking, low-wage jobs.
Just as with everything, there are two sides. People don't realize how much of a hit our economy would take if we suddenly closed our borders and managed to kick out every illegal alien.
Most people don't like them because of racist or prejudice reasons. Immigrants are no more prone to be thugs and criminals than those naturalized or born citizens that live in the same area they do. For them, crime is a product of their socio-economic standing. I believe it was Stanford that did a 5-year study on this and came to this conclusion. The number of illegals who were criminals was proportional to the number of others living in the same region or socio-economic standings in or around the same geographic locations.
The other thing people complain about is them taking "our jobs." If I ever see a statement this funny again I think I'll die of asphyxiation from laughing so hard. Illegal aliens are, in the grand part (probably over 99%, but I haven't counted), not highly educated people. Most probably never even saw a high school. The jobs they are taking are the low skill and low pay jobs. Those jobs such as shelf stockers at Wal-Mart, farm hands, and burger flippers at McDonalds. Are these really the jobs you want for you and your family or are you really striving to get those lawyer, doctor, engineer, and accounting jobs?
You know who's running into these problems now? Wal-Mart. They sell cheap because they are allowed to keep prices low (be it by buying in bulk, hiring cheap labor, or having mostly part-time workers that, by law, do not require many benefits). People buy there because of the low prices and this helps the economy two ways: as people shop there, they save money leaving them more disposable income to spend in other locations; and, with their patronage, Wal-Mart is able to employ many people who, normally, wouldn't have a place to work. Yes, they are not getting great benefit packages, but at least they have a job where, if it weren't for Wal-Mart, they wouldn't have one. Having a part-time, no benefit job is always preferable to having no job at all. People demonize Wal-Mart but, the fact remains, they are good for economies. If you don't like it then you vote with your dollar by shopping elsewhere. Of course, you will end up spending more money and help to slow our economic growth but you don't care because you really want these people to have a dental plan. That's what helps you sleep well at night.
The economic impact of closing a Wal-Mart has never been felt (they've never closed a store). We can only speculate as to the amount of damage the local economy would suffer if a Wally World did infact shut its doors.
Listen, I'm against illegal immigration too. But, I think the laws are too strict and should allow for more people to come here if they want to. Prior to WWI, there were no immigration laws. If you wanted to come here all you had to do was come and sit in quaranteen for a month if you came from a country where some disease was common. No passport, no visa, just come on down. I like that idea.
Last edited by silverdevil : 02-17-2006 at 09:52 AM.
Good Information, but in your last idea that the laws are too strict, what about terrorists being able to enter our country much easier than it is now?
However I have no problems with the workers. I have a problem with the flood of gang members that come over bringing drugs and crime, with the ghetto people that come over, have a baby and continue on welfare. No one ever talks about these people, just about the "good" workers.
So, how about immigration REFORM? Plug the border and all the holes on the border, stop the drugs from coming in and the criminal element... which includes undocumented terrorists (you and I both know it can happen), and allow a "seasonal" Visa of some sort, or a "migratory worker permit", something like that, that would allow us to figure out how many people are coming through, who they are, where they were born, and where they'll be working.
Is there something wrong with this? Continueing on as we have been doing is suicide....
However I have no problems with the workers. I have a problem with the flood of gang members that come over bringing drugs and crime, with the ghetto people that come over, have a baby and continue on welfare. No one ever talks about these people, just about the "good" workers.
So, how about immigration REFORM? Plug the border and all the holes on the border, stop the drugs from coming in and the criminal element... which includes undocumented terrorists (you and I both know it can happen), and allow a "seasonal" Visa of some sort, or a "migratory worker permit", something like that, that would allow us to figure out how many people are coming through, who they are, where they were born, and where they'll be working.
Is there something wrong with this? Continueing on as we have been doing is suicide....
I will address this and scansel912's post just above it.
Yes, opening up our borders to anyone would allow terrorists in. However, before 9/11, how many people here were afraid of terrorist attacks from abroad? Maybe 1%? We really don't have to worry about the people we let in so long as we protect what is allowed to enter the country. So long as we scan the ports, planes, and land-based vehicles (trucks, trains, cars, etc.), the people really can't harm us. The problem is we don't do that now. Only about 5% of all shipments that enter the U.S. are screened. So, if a terrorist wants to "sneek" a dirty bomb into the U.S., he has a 95% chance of doing so successfully.
I agree with Zap, tho. I think that we do need to reform our immigration laws and policies. Guest worker visas would be great for tax purposes but horrible on those businesses that will have to pay their workers minimum wage as opposed to $2.50 an hour, or whatever they get now. It would impact the economy, though on a lesser scale than just kicking them out entirely.
This is not an easy, black-and-white issue. It is very complicated and calculating the effects of any reform is nothing short of guesstimation. We will only know when we do something what the real effects are because of all the variables involved.
Still, I would love to see the system (and by system I mean our whole entire government) reformed. There are too many out-of-date laws, policies, and regulations that need to be actualized, starting with the Endangered Species Act (no, I'm not a whale killer).
I work in ID verification. I pull up tax records all day with 1 last name like Roberts assigned to the ssn then 1 to 6 other last names of Rodriguez, Montoya, pasquez, Zapata, Gomez. I understand they drive a lot of our industries but there must be a way to document them so that when you file for unemployment, tax refunds, or get your record pulled for a job you dont need to go an extra 2-4 weeks without recieving unemployment benifits you earned or finding out your tax refund is being held from you because you already filled your taxes twice this year. Its a huge problem. I can stand up and see endless cubes right now all dedicated to solving this problem. A lot of us have worked every Saturday since december to keep up with the work load.
Check your ssn regularly. Call the FTB here in Ca and see If you are the only person using yours. The governement will not fight it because 90% of illegals pay payroll taxes and never ask for a refund so its not worth it for them to look in to why there are more than 1 name on a ssn.
I say we set up land mines up and down the border and that will make them stop coming over.
If the immigration problem is so bad, why doesn't the government just put a huge wall across the south border?
That'll solve the illegal immigration and terrorist crossing the border problem. Yes, it would cost a lot, however in a couple of years time it would pay itself off. Certain government agencies would not have to worry about tracking these aliens down, supplementing their living & giving them liberities/privilges you've all payed for.
Kinda glad Canada doesn't have this type of a problem. However, the biggest problem that is hitting the our news stations on a daily basis is the illegal weapons smuggled from the U.S. to commit violent crimes.
