Political DiscussionA place to hold political debates and general discussion. Please remember to always respect the opinions of other members and above all else, be civil.
****I don't think being a minority makes you a victim of anything except numbers. The only things I can think of that are truly discriminatory are things like the United Negro College Fund, Jet Magazine, Black Entertainment Television, and Miss Black America. Try to have things like the United Caucasian College Fund, Cloud Magazine, White Entertainment Television, or Miss White America; and see what happens...Jesse Jackson will be knocking down your door.
Guns do not make you a killer. I think killing makes you a killer. You can kill someone with a baseball bat or a car, but no one is trying to ban you from driving to the ball game. I believe they are called the Boy Scouts for a reason, that is why there are no girls allowed. Girls belong in the Girl Scouts! ARE YOU LISTENING MARTHA BURKE? I think that if you feel homosexuality is wrong, it is not a phobia, it is an opinion. I have the right "NOT" to be tolerant of others because they are different, weird, or tick me off. When 70% of the people who get arrested are black, in cities where 70% of the population is black, that is not racial profiling, it is the Law of Probability. I believe that if you are selling me a milkshake, a pack of cigarettes, a newspaper or a hotel room, you must do it in English! As a matter of fact, if you want to be an American citizen, you should have to speak English! My father and grandfather didn't die in vain so you can leave the countries you were born in to come over and disrespect ours. I think the police should have every right to shoot your sorry ass if you threaten them after they tell you to stop. If you can't understand the word "freeze" or "stop" in English, see the above lines. I don't think just because you were not born in this country, you are qualified for any special loan programs, government sponsored bank loans or tax breaks, etc., so you can open a hotel, coffee shop, trinket store, or any other business. We did not go to the aid of certain foreign countries and risk our lives in wars to defend their freedoms, so that decades later they could come over here and tell us our constitution is a living document; and open to their interpretations. I don't hate the rich. I don't pity the poor. I know pro wrestling is fake, but so are movies and television. That doesn't stop you from watching them. I thnk Bill Gates has every right to keep every penny he made and continue to make more. If it ticks you off, go and invent the next operating system that's better, and put your name on the building. It doesn't take a whole village to raise a child right, but it does take a parent to stand up to the kid; and smack their little behinds when necessary, and say "NO!" I am sick of "Political Correctness." I know a lot of black people, and not a single one of them was born in Africa; So how can they be "African-Americans"? Besides, Africa is a continent. I don't go around saying I am a European-American because my great, great, great, great, great, great grandfather was from Europe. ****
I have to say that for the most part I agree with this. Except of course for the not knowing a single black person from Africa. Most of the people I work with are REALLY from Africa.
"I don't think just because you were not born in this country, you are qualified for any special loan programs, government sponsored bank loans or tax breaks, etc., so you can open a hotel, coffee shop, trinket store, or any other business." - this one is bs b/c non-citizens legaly don't get sh*t.
"We did not go to the aid of certain foreign countries and risk our lives in wars to defend their freedoms, so that decades later they could come over here and tell us our constitution is a living document; and open to their interpretations." - oh ok that makes sense.
****I don't think being a minority makes you a victim of anything except numbers. The only things I can think of that are truly discriminatory are things like the United Negro College Fund, Jet Magazine, Black Entertainment Television, and Miss Black America. Try to have things like the United Caucasian College Fund, Cloud Magazine, White Entertainment Television, or Miss White America; and see what happens...Jesse Jackson will be knocking down your door.
Listen, if you're a white English speaking male, you have no idea what discrimination is about and you never will. You're way of thinking is different, therefore it's almost impossible to empathize with someone from a different background.
And saying stuff like what's quoted above just makes it more obvious.
All he left out is "borders are called borders for a reason" "Illegal are illegal not un-documented immigrants" "the death penalty is there for a reason so lets use it"
You are a bitter person. If you are a white male(I am) and you are complaining you have a problem. I live in Sacramento. It could lean more to the left but then it would be laying down. I have never been turned down at a job interview even when in competition better qualified minorities. To say everyone would be mad if there was white anything then look at when those magazines were started. Find me a black contestant in Ms. America or the Black sitcom in 1945. Hell show me the voting black man in 1945(1st year of Ebony) Last time I checked all the immigrants I know get taxed at a higher rate not a lower rate. They run profitable companies because they work 90 hour weeks. Not because Democrats or Republicans are shopping for that hmong vote. "It takes a village..." is a book just to let you know the title of a book has more to do with its sales than anything inside the book. "Rich dad poor dad" will sale way more copies than "How to get your finances in order.” Everyone knows good kids normally come from good parents. However you don't need idiotic uncles coming over drunk all the time showing your kids its normal to drink more than 1 or 2.
Have you ever read the constitution? Its very short for a reason. It is a living document. What do you think amendments are? Our founding fathers amended it. Also a nice little fact is that it pertains to all residents of America not just the citizens. If your going to attack anything attack the commerce clause and its vague boundaries.
Like I said everything your friend said is very well thought out. I have never heard those ideas b4. Except all over fox, cnn, and talk radio. Oh by the way guys war on x-mas lie is over now. New war to divide white Christian men is Men v. Women. Girls have an easier time in school because they have better hand writing. Since a small part of your grades are based on neatness that's not fair to men.
If you want to hate people then hate them. I don't hang out with nor do I like blacks or gays. There are no black gays sueing me to get in to my circle of friends.
When's the last time you saw one lamb and 18 Sheppard's? It doesn't happen. Your friends ideas are very sheepish, that have no real basis in truth.
Last edited by nick95673 : 02-04-2006 at 12:46 PM.
Every day I thank god I am a western european christian male. I wouldnt trade it for 10 million dollars.
Its like chris rock said “the handi-cap white bus boy wouldnt even want to trade places with me, AND I AM RICH. hes(the bus boy) like “I am gonna ride this white thing out, see where it takes me””
Listen, if you're a white English speaking male, you have no idea what discrimination is about and you never will. You're way of thinking is different, therefore it's almost impossible to empathize with someone from a different background.
And saying stuff like what's quoted above just makes it more obvious.
your statement was just discrimination, so how can you claim that he'll never know what discrimination is?
to say that a white english speaking male won't ever know what discrimination is, is actually discrimination in and of itself.
If you are a white male(I am) and you are complaining you have a problem.
why is that? what's wrong with someone complaining about unfair advantages and treatment given to minorities? affirmative action for example. a white person more qualified for a job, could be declined because they need to have a certain number of minorities. Here is a quote:
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(Affirmative action: Affirmative Action is comprised of programs and policies that grant favorable treatment on the basis of race or gender to government-defined "disadvantaged" individuals. Under this definition, racial or gender preference must be granted even when the favored / aggrieved minority or gender has no actual evidence or proof that a company, boss, individual, or government agency has discriminated against them due to their race or gender. Definition 2 is based upon the Constitutionally dubious notion of proportional representation based upon skin color or gender in all occupations and endeavors in the U.S. according to the US, "disadvantaged" individuals are: Black Americans, Hispanic Americans, Native Americans (American Indians, Eskimos, Aleuts, or Native Hawaiians), Asian Pacific Americans (persons with origins from Burma, Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore, Brunei, Japan, China, Taiwan, Laos, Cambodia (Kampuchea), Vietnam, Korea, The Philippines, U. S. Trust Territory of the Pacific Islands (Republic of Palau), Republic of the Marshall Islands, Federated States of Micronesia, the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands, Guam, Samoa, Macao, Hong Kong, Fiji, Tonga, Kiribati, Tuvalu, or Nauru), Subcontinent Asian Americans (persons with origins from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Bhutan, the Maldives Islands or Nepal), or, to a lesser extent, and more recently, thanks to Bill Clinton, females regardless of race or ethnicity.)
So why should these "disadvantaged" races be given special treatment and advantages?
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Find me a black contestant in Ms. America or the Black sitcom in 1945.
there have been several african-american miss americas. why are you going back to 1945? that was a different and worser era then when it came to discrimination.
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Last time I checked all the immigrants I know get taxed at a higher rate not a lower rate.
care to provide sources and proof of this? last time I checked my 1040 form, I must have missed the part where it asks what race you are, so they can change your tax bracket. did you know that if you're not a legal citizen of this country, that you dont have to pay ANY income tax, social security, medicare, etc?
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They run profitable companies because they work 90 hour weeks. Not because Democrats or Republicans are shopping for that hmong vote.
no one ever said they weren't. to those that do the hard work and make a successful business, more power to them. but why should a white man be at a disadvantage to start a new business because he can't get loans that an immigrant can?
Last edited by S2000man01 : 02-04-2006 at 12:52 PM.
there have been several african-american miss americas. why are you going back to 1945? that was a different and worser era then when it came to discrimination.
I say 1945 because thats when Ebony was created. Ebony owns jet. Since then they have manged to stay proffitable. When the magazines were started they were needed. They go after a small piece of the market and do it well.
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Originally Posted by S2000man01
care to provide sources and proof of this? last time I checked my 1040 form, I must have missed the part where it asks what race you are, so they can change your tax bracket.
Sorry I should have said un-naturalized immigrants. Those who work on work visa's.
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Originally Posted by S2000man01
no one ever said they weren't. to those that do the hard work and make a successful business, more power to them. but why should a white man be at a disadvantage to start a new business because he can't get loans that an immigrant can?
It sucks. I cant buy a beer in the 9th inning because of 1 idiot that hit the center fielder with a battery once in 1987. A lot that happens in this country because a few spoil it all. Minorities receive special programs because a few bad bankers have rejected perfectly qualified minorities for no good reason. In this day and age I am sure it is few and far between. I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't happen at all these days. However our grandparents who fought in ww2 were alive in a time when minorities couldn't vote, lynching was not prosecuted, and Japanese Americans were placed in camps. We are not that far removed from that era. This is what we mean when we say “mortgaging our children's future” well we are the children. It sucks but we pay the price for what happened when we were not alive. These laws did not come out of no where. They were needed.
White men still qualify for all the loans they did before. No loans have been taken away. Minorities just have a few more doors. Its not right. But like I said I am not scared.
I hate it as much as anyone. However when I look at history it is a small price to pay.
Last edited by nick95673 : 02-04-2006 at 01:10 PM.
Believe it or not, when you give free handouts to people that may be disadvantaged, you make them even more disadvantaged. Why? Because they don't challenge themselves and force themselves to be better.
A quote from the movie "High Learning": "You are a runner. What do you do if you have a running meet coming up and you suspect that the man you will be running against is bigger, stronger, and faster than you". "I train harder".
If you force people to become their best and really try for something, then that is when they reach inside of them and become better. If you give them a handicap, they will fall back on that handicap.
I look at immigrants to this country. They are hard working and resourceful (usually). They start out with nothing, bust their butt, and make something out of it. Many other people who were born here just sit back and expect the government to bail them out, ALL THE TIME. Then they complain that "the man" is keeping them down.
Discrimination isn't nearly as common as it used to be. And so many people, of many races, blame discrimination when it comes to their lack of success. A lot of other people don't scream about it, and instead just bust their butts and end up making a good life for themselves.
That quote is attributed to Mickey Rooney, if I'm not mistaken.
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Originally Posted by ZapThyCat
I look at immigrants to this country. They are hard working and resourceful (usually). They start out with nothing, bust their butt, and make something out of it. Many other people who were born here just sit back and expect the government to bail them out, ALL THE TIME. Then they complain that "the man" is keeping them down.
Discrimination isn't nearly as common as it used to be. And so many people, of many races, blame discrimination when it comes to their lack of success. A lot of other people don't scream about it, and instead just bust their butts and end up making a good life for themselves.
You make some good points. However, I have a bit of a differing opinion (gasp!).
Do you know that, prior to WWI, there was no limit or cap on immigration? Other than to quarantine people to ensure diseases were not brought into the country, everyone who wanted to come to the U.S. was allowed. It was the same all across the world. People were free to roam from country to country and seek a better life for themselves. Then something happened: we got greedy. We decided to close our borders and not allow others to come here and have the same advantages most people in America enjoyed at one time or another. Not only that, we also decided that government money wasn't good enough to give to the poor but was good enough to give to businesses and farmers. I hate subsidies and I hate bail-outs.
How many people out there complain about welfare but are all for government subsidies to farmers and other businesses (like bailing out a few banks in the 80's and the airlines twice)?
I agree with the first sentence I quoted here. Immigrants should be let in, if not to get people to work harder and compete for jobs. Competition is the basis of any capitalistic society, not only for businesses, but also for people.
But, there are also other things to consider. A little bit of help is good for the economy. It will help people get back on their feet and get through rough times. It's just that the system is being abused and has grown to a state where reform is just not enough. The whole system needs to be revamped!
You make some good points. However, I have a bit of a differing opinion (gasp!).
Do you know that, prior to WWI, there was no limit or cap on immigration? Other than to quarantine people to ensure diseases were not brought into the country, everyone who wanted to come to the U.S. was allowed. It was the same all across the world. People were free to roam from country to country and seek a better life for themselves. Then something happened: we got greedy. We decided to close our borders and not allow others to come here and have the same advantages most people in America enjoyed at one time or another. Not only that, we also decided that government money wasn't good enough to give to the poor but was good enough to give to businesses and farmers. I hate subsidies and I hate bail-outs.
How many people out there complain about welfare but are all for government subsidies to farmers and other businesses (like bailing out a few banks in the 80's and the airlines twice)?
I agree with the first sentence I quoted here. Immigrants should be let in, if not to get people to work harder and compete for jobs. Competition is the basis of any capitalistic society, not only for businesses, but also for people.
But, there are also other things to consider. A little bit of help is good for the economy. It will help people get back on their feet and get through rough times. It's just that the system is being abused and has grown to a state where reform is just not enough. The whole system needs to be revamped!
We don't differ much in our opinions, apparently...
(I'm not sure who Mickey Rooney is, BTW)
Immigrants were actually prohibited before WW1. In 1906, the US passed certain acts that classified Japanese people as "utterly undesireable orientals" and moved to cap the amount that could flock here.
A LITTLE bit of help works to help the economy. But too much makes people dependant on it, and thus weaker. I look at many of the refugees from New Orleans.... there are something like 70 families in the bay area (near where I live), and virtually none of them have jobs. They're about to lose their Gov't assistance and they are whining about it. One guy, his house wasn't even in NO, and it was still completely liveable.... and he still moved away to depend on the gov't. Some areas that welcomed the refugees are experienceing shockwaves of crime caused by the refugees.
Just like working out, building muscle.... people don't get stronger unless there are challenges.
In the end, I'm for drastically smaller government, and virtually no aid except to those that are truly "in a rut". Some people choose to live "in a rut" and when you give money to them, they go deeper in a rut and the money ends up in the hands of drug gangs
Believe it or not, when you give free handouts to people that may be disadvantaged, you make them even more disadvantaged. Why? Because they don't challenge themselves and force themselves to be better.
A quote from the movie "High Learning": "You are a runner. What do you do if you have a running meet coming up and you suspect that the man you will be running against is bigger, stronger, and faster than you". "I train harder".
If you force people to become their best and really try for something, then that is when they reach inside of them and become better. If you give them a handicap, they will fall back on that handicap.
I look at immigrants to this country. They are hard working and resourceful (usually). They start out with nothing, bust their butt, and make something out of it. Many other people who were born here just sit back and expect the government to bail them out, ALL THE TIME. Then they complain that "the man" is keeping them down.
Discrimination isn't nearly as common as it used to be. And so many people, of many races, blame discrimination when it comes to their lack of success. A lot of other people don't scream about it, and instead just bust their butts and end up making a good life for themselves.
i totally agree
still i'd rather be white then anything else in this country
A LITTLE bit of help works to help the economy. But too much makes people dependant on it, and thus weaker. I look at many of the refugees from New Orleans.... there are something like 70 families in the bay area (near where I live), and virtually none of them have jobs. They're about to lose their Gov't assistance and they are whining about it. One guy, his house wasn't even in NO, and it was still completely liveable.... and he still moved away to depend on the gov't. Some areas that welcomed the refugees are experienceing shockwaves of crime caused by the refugees.
Just like working out, building muscle.... people don't get stronger unless there are challenges.
In the end, I'm for drastically smaller government, and virtually no aid except to those that are truly "in a rut". Some people choose to live "in a rut" and when you give money to them, they go deeper in a rut and the money ends up in the hands of drug gangs
