Political DiscussionA place to hold political debates and general discussion. Please remember to always respect the opinions of other members and above all else, be civil.
I think your reaction is a little uncalled for. No one is "bitching" about Merry Christmas. We are having a debate on whether we feel it should or shouldn't be used. All the comments about getting out of the country are uncalled for. Just because you live somewhere does not mean you have to live by all their rules. If we did, there wouldn't be progress. I guess all the black people should have gone back to Africa during the civil rights movement? I would hope this conversation would lead to better discussion than "stop bitching and get the fvck out."
well, i for one am not saying they shouldnt say "merry christmas"...i wouldnt tell anyone that they cant say something.
the point im trying to make is that people should be more concious of, and conciencious towards, people who are not of the same faith/of the same beliefs. i KNOW that all these people are doing is wishing me a happy whatever...which in itself is a great gesture, but i just think its pretentious to wish everyone a merry christmas, or happy hanukkah or whatever else specific to any particular holiday at around this time because its a sign that this person thinks that everyone believes in christ, etc....which is NOT the case.
well, i for one am not saying they shouldnt say "merry christmas"...i wouldnt tell anyone that they cant say something.
the point im trying to make is that people should be more concious of, and conciencious towards, people who are not of the same faith/of the same beliefs. i KNOW that all these people are doing is wishing me a happy whatever...which in itself is a great gesture, but i just think its pretentious to wish everyone a merry christmas, or happy hanukkah or whatever else specific to any particular holiday at around this time because its a sign that this person thinks that everyone believes in christ, etc....which is NOT the case.
me too...I didn't mean to apply that it should never be said, but just be cognizent of who you are saying it to.
It is all a matter of fact..it is said as a greeting to strangers at sprawl-mart and other places, or said as nice gesture like hello to people on the street. the fact that people actually have to argue about this truly shows how pathetic us north americans can be, when we have to argue about how to greet one another on the street.
moreover, north america IS recognized as a majority white christian/catholic/protestant etc land, despite everyones regards the government is christian based, god save the queen, god bless america, in god we trust. I know that god can be jewish and muslim and everything else, but when settlers first came they were not muslim nor israeli. I respect every religion and think that as long as we follow some sort of good God then we are doing something right.
I am gonna continue to say merry christmas because for me it has always been the christmas season, and for anyone that gets offened relax it is just a greeting that has been around for atleast the last 100 years
It is all a matter of fact..it is said as a greeting to strangers at sprawl-mart and other places, or said as nice gesture like hello to people on the street. the fact that people actually have to argue about this truly shows how pathetic us north americans can be, when we have to argue about how to greet one another on the street.
moreover, north america IS recognized as a majority white christian/catholic/protestant etc land, despite everyones regards the government is christian based, god save the queen, god bless america, in god we trust. I know that god can be jewish and muslim and everything else, but when settlers first came they were not muslim nor israeli. I respect every religion and think that as long as we follow some sort of good God then we are doing something right.
I am gonna continue to say merry christmas because for me it has always been the christmas season, and for anyone that gets offened relax it is just a greeting that has been around for atleast the last 100 years
Well, ya know, you don't have to be totaly rational about it!
Your ruining our arguments.
It is all a matter of fact..it is said as a greeting to strangers at sprawl-mart and other places, or said as nice gesture like hello to people on the street. the fact that people actually have to argue about this truly shows how pathetic us north americans can be, when we have to argue about how to greet one another on the street.
moreover, north america IS recognized as a majority white christian/catholic/protestant etc land, despite everyones regards the government is christian based, god save the queen, god bless america, in god we trust. I know that god can be jewish and muslim and everything else, but when settlers first came they were not muslim nor israeli. I respect every religion and think that as long as we follow some sort of good God then we are doing something right.
I am gonna continue to say merry christmas because for me it has always been the christmas season, and for anyone that gets offened relax it is just a greeting that has been around for atleast the last 100 years
I say hello to people on the street. Pathetic? I don't understand why having an internet converstation about a topic is pathetic? If I wanted to have this conversation with my friends, would it still be pathetic? It just happened to be a topic that was brought up.
Again, being offensive is the problem. It is not being aware of who you are talking to. True this country is predominantly Judeo-Christian, but not everyone here is. Again, if one doesn't follow any god (Buddhist, atheist, agnostic), is it fair for someone to swear on a Christian Bible in a courtroom? Is it fair for them to feel social pressure to say Merry Christmas? Whether or not the last question is a highly relevant question is debatable, but it can be an issue for some poeple.
Finally, just because it has been around for 100 years, does that make it right? Slavery was around for centuries, is it still ok?
I don't mean to come off as a cynic, but if you passed by me and said merry christmas, would you even consider that I might not be Christian? would you say Merry Christmas to an Indian person or a Middle Eastern person or a Jew? Probably not because you know they probably aren't Christian. However, every WASP or white person is supposed to be Christian...but we aren't.
ok, let me settle something- in uzbekistan we had a santa. even though im jewish. he was not called santa. he was called "grandfather frost" - translation of russian. so the culture of santa is everywhere make no mistake. christmas though is different. santa clause is everywhere.
I say hello to people on the street. Pathetic? I don't understand why having an internet converstation about a topic is pathetic? If I wanted to have this conversation with my friends, would it still be pathetic? It just happened to be a topic that was brought up.
Again, being offensive is the problem. It is not being aware of who you are talking to. True this country is predominantly Judeo-Christian, but not everyone here is. Again, if one doesn't follow any god (Buddhist, atheist, agnostic), is it fair for someone to swear on a Christian Bible in a courtroom? Is it fair for them to feel social pressure to say Merry Christmas? Whether or not the last question is a highly relevant question is debatable, but it can be an issue for some poeple.
Finally, just because it has been around for 100 years, does that make it right? Slavery was around for centuries, is it still ok?
I don't mean to come off as a cynic, but if you passed by me and said merry christmas, would you even consider that I might not be Christian? would you say Merry Christmas to an Indian person or a Middle Eastern person or a Jew? Probably not because you know they probably aren't Christian. However, every WASP or white person is supposed to be Christian...but we aren't.
I never meant saying hello was pathetic, the matter is more that not saying the word christmas has made it's way all across the media and lunch rooms everywhere. It is rediculous, something that has been said for centuries is now becoming an issue. And somehow i knew slavery was gonna be mentioned, which holds no relevance. We are discussing a word, not a degredation of an entire race.
I mean if we start to argue about this, why shouldn't we start to argue about other meaningless things, like I don't know, Halloween. I don't see the jehovah witnesses making proclamations about it being offensive to them, they don't believe in so they don't turn their lights on for the kids, there...done, no complaints. Moreover they don't celebrate birthdays so maybe none of us should make birthday announcements in the paper or on the radio.
So should we not say happy easter to anyone either? which from definition is a direct relation to the word 'pashca' which is translated to passover ? should we say happy rabbit day? just so we make everyone happy? no it is rediculous.
we take it for what it is, the greeting that has been around for centuries, just like christmas. jewish people say happy hannuka to all of their relatives and friends during this festive season, and christians say merry christmas to everyone including perfect strangers, why be offended like i said before it is just a greeting, just say happy holidays/hanukkah/kwanzaa/ramadan etc..back. don't fight it and make a bigger deal about it than it is. it is the holiday season and most everyone who is shopping in North America around dec. 1 and 25 is christmas shopping, so deal with it. if you are no religion and are celebrating the 25th, then maybe you should reconsider cause it is historically a christian based holiday reflecting christian beliefs, so in my opinion do the least to respect it, and just accept it for what it is.
ok, let me settle something- in uzbekistan we had a santa. even though im jewish. he was not called santa. he was called "grandfather frost" - translation of russian. so the culture of santa is everywhere make no mistake. christmas though is different. santa clause is everywhere.
in ukraine we also had grandpa frost. only thing is, it wasnt santa clause, because he wasnt a religious figure. grandpa frost was a mascot/whatever for the celebration of the new year...like father time is in the US.
so its not the culture of santa, its a culture of a gift-giving old, bearded man that is associated with holidays in the winter. just so everyone is clear on the facts. haha
bot_r_d...from now on, every time someone says "merry christmas" to me, im going to look them in the eye and tell them that im not christian, and make sure that they understand that and feel utterly STUPID.
it all started on th 25th to represent the time of christs birth, followers just tagged along because they saw that christians were getting great gifts in the name of religion, so it isn't our fault that others followed with the gift thing.
if they wanted to give gifts for the winter season why tag along on christmas?
pb if you say happy holidays or hannukah it won't make someone feel stupid, i am sure that they will be fine with it. Further more not feel stupid if your offended enough to say something with vengances towards someone else then you are missing the point of both yours and the other persons beliefs
I mean if we start to argue about this, why shouldn't we start to argue about other meaningless things, like I don't know, Halloween. I don't see the jehovah witnesses making proclamations about it being offensive to them, they don't believe in so they don't turn their lights on for the kids, there...done, no complaints. Moreover they don't celebrate birthdays so maybe none of us should make birthday announcements in the paper or on the radio.
in case you did not know, many public schools are stopping halloween celebrations as well as thanksgiving celebrations. i think its stupid, because holidays are fun. this isnt an argument...just an FYI. halloween, although started out of paganism and protestant/christianity...it has stopped being a religious holiday long ago. same as st. valentines day. these are just "fun" holidays now.
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So should we not say happy easter to anyone either? which from definition is a direct relation to the word 'pashca' which is translated to passover ? should we say happy rabbit day? just so we make everyone happy? no it is rediculous.
easter and pesah (passover), just because they are celebrated around the same time, are NOT the same holiday. easter is the celebration of jesus' resurection. passover is the rememberance of the jews' exodus from egypt. passover itself stands for passing over, as in when "god" passed over the jewish homes where they smeared lambs blood and if there was no blood the male kids were killed. this was one of the plagues that moses cast on egypt. regardless, these are NOT the same holiday, as you said.
i have never heard ANYONE wish a "happy passover" because it is not a celebratory holiday. it is a rememberance. have you said "happy easter" to many people? because i havent heard that either.
in case you did not know, many public schools are stopping halloween celebrations as well as thanksgiving celebrations. i think its stupid, because holidays are fun. this isnt an argument...just an FYI. halloween, although started out of paganism and protestant/christianity...it has stopped being a religious holiday long ago. same as st. valentines day. these are just "fun" holidays now.
now see that is what i mean, valentines day is another christian based holiday and for people to be going crazy about makes me sick, i can't believe that people could fall to that level, where they are sooooo set in their ways that they want to take the religion out of religiously friendly holiday. as for halloween that comes as a shock to me, it has been noted as a pagan and christian based holiday, but seriously this is making me laugh. taking away fun things like that from kids is a crime in itself
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Originally Posted by pbfoot
easter and pesah (passover), just because they are celebrated around the same time, are NOT the same holiday. easter is the celebration of jesus' resurection. passover is the rememberance of the jews' exodus from egypt. passover itself stands for passing over, as in when "god" passed over the jewish homes where they smeared lambs blood and if there was no blood the male kids were killed. this was one of the plagues that moses cast on egypt. regardless, these are NOT the same holiday, as you said.
i have never heard ANYONE wish a "happy passover" because it is not a celebratory holiday. it is a rememberance. have you said "happy easter" to many people? because i havent heard that either.
but you mark my point, pesah also is meaning of easter, and i hear everyone say happy easter, just because it is not as gift driven as christmas you may not hear it as much. and passover is celebrated in the catholic christian community, lent? i know it is not the same, but they are linked. in my church we celebrate passover and it is in the homily. It is all the same, so if someone were to say I don't like easter lets call it something else would that be okay with you even though it has signifigance to jewish faith as well? to me it sounds rediculous and would be mad
easter def'n
originally a Saxon word (Eostre), denoting a goddess of the Saxons, in honour of whom sacrifices were offered about the time of the Passover. Hence the name came to be given to the festival of the Resurrection of Christ, which occured at the time of the Passover. In the early English versions this word was frequently used as the translation of the Greek pascha (the Passover). When the Authorized Version (1611) was formed, the word "passover" was used in all passages in which this word pascha occurred, except in Act 12:4. In the Revised Version the proper word, "passover," is always used.
just so everyone is clear on the facts. haha
