Political DiscussionA place to hold political debates and general discussion. Please remember to always respect the opinions of other members and above all else, be civil.
We are America. We shouldn't hold our nation up next to others.
We should be on a different level. This is how we are getting in to
trouble with the torture. We try to justify it with "we aren't doing it as
bad as they Iran, Iraq, China) are." We need to get away from justifying
poor ideas with the argument "other dumb people are doing the same stupid
thing we are." America is a nation of Christians not a Christian nation.
those who constantly use the argument that we are a majority of Christians
so we should have Christian rules and laws, are the same guys that get
upset that Iraq is taking the shape of a Muslim nation. No one is saying
prayer or Christmas is wrong. Forcing other Americans in to religious
situations however is not what America is about.
If the players want to pray they can pray and so can the fans. If
the boss wants to have a private x-mass party at home they can. Imagine
you are a Muslim and you are working down in Alabama and the whole
government office shuts down and everyone goes to the conference room. So
you go because they all say c'mon you got to come it will be fun. When you
walk in every one lowers their head and the boss leads a prayer to a god
that is not your god. Then imagine they go around the room asking everyone
what made this year positive for you. We just happen to be Christian so it
seems to be ok to us.
Or imagine you moved to Japan in 1925 and had a 7 year old son and
every day he had to pledge to the Japanese flag and at some point say
"under the watchful eye of the all powerful emperor." Now he is 7 knows
he doesnt believe this and that he would offend his god by saying this.
Every day all of his class mates are standing up and saying this. All he wants
to do is fit in, so he sales out his god. This way he is not the weird round-eye
Christian who hates Japan. The pledge of allegiance is really only said by young
children. I bet mostadults couldn't say it without stumbling. Try it I bet half
your office will mumble 80% of it.
This nation is 87% Christian. X-mass isn't going anywhere. O wait
Christians are letting x-mass leave. some churches will be closed Sunday
December 25th due to expected low attendance. No atheists are telling
people not to go to church. However it seems to me most Christians in this
nation are only Christian when its easy. But giving up a lil fun time with
family to go celebrate the birth of Jesus in the one place where you really
should is too hard. Based on this up-roar of pro x-mass people I would
expect church to be pact on the 25th with people just exuding the Christmas
spirit.
I am not saying x-mas should be killed. However it shouldnt be a celebrated
holiday at work or school. I celebrate x-mas in a huge way. I do the lights.
I go to at least 10 parties. And I travel to see family. But everything i do is
my choice and i dont force those around me to do any of it.
Last edited by nick95673 : 12-08-2005 at 03:26 PM.
We are America. We shouldn't hold our nation up next to others.
We should be on a different level. This is how we are getting in to
trouble with the torture. We try to justify it with "we aren't doing it as
bad as they Iran, Iraq, China) are." We need to get away from justifying
poor ideas with the argument "other dumb people are doing the same stupid
thing we are." America is a nation of Christians not a Christian nation.
those who constantly use the argument that we are a majority of Christians
so we should have Christian rules and laws, are the same guys that get
upset that Iraq is taking the shape of a Muslim nation. No one is saying
prayer or Christmas is wrong. Forcing other Americans in to religious
situations however is not what America is about.
If the players want to pray they can pray and so can the fans. If
the boss wants to have a private x-mass party at home they can. Imagine
you are a Muslim and you are working down in Alabama and the whole
government office shuts down and everyone goes to the conference room. So
you go because they all say c'mon you got to come it will be fun. When you
walk in every one lowers their head and the boss leads a prayer to a god
that is not your god. Then imagine they go around the room asking everyone
what made this year positive for you. We just happen to be Christian so it
seems to be ok to us.
Or imagine you moved to Japan in 1925 and had a 7 year old son and
every day he had to pledge to the Japanese flag and at some point say
"under the watchful eye of the all powerful emperor." Now he is 7 knows
he doesnt believe this and that he would offend his god by saying this.
Every day all of his class mates are standing up and saying this. All he wants
to do is fit in, so he sales out his god. This way he is not the weird round-eye
Christian who hates Japan. The pledge of allegiance is really only said by young
children. I bet mostadults couldn't say it without stumbling. Try it I bet half
your office will mumble 80% of it.
This nation is 87% Christian. X-mass isn't going anywhere. O wait
Christians are letting x-mass leave. some churches will be closed Sunday
December 25th due to expected low attendance. No atheists are telling
people not to go to church. However it seems to me most Christians in this
nation are only Christian when its easy. But giving up a lil fun time with
family to go celebrate the birth of Jesus in the one place where you really
should is too hard. Based on this up-roar of pro x-mass people I would
expect church to be pact on the 25th with people just exuding the Christmas
spirit.
Is this your view or are you just trying to start a debate?
its my view. Its written in a different format because it was originally an e-mail i wrote. Then decided to post it on here. I think most people jump on the omg dont attack x-mas band wagon because its like jumping on the dont kill the puppy band wagon. Who isnt pro christmas. The problem is some people dont hate x-mas they just dont want it forced upon them at work and school. You see there are muslims who work at Target.
Last edited by nick95673 : 12-08-2005 at 03:19 PM.
thats the worst response possible. its says nothing about what you think. You kicked me in my nuts then blew me in the hope i wouldnt notice you kicked me.
thats the worst response possible. its says nothing about what you think. You kicked me in my nuts then blew me in the hope i wouldnt notice you kicked me.
I just think stating any more of my opinion is pointless.
Christmas is Christmas. It's a freaking federal holiday. I don't know of any muslims or jews or anyone else that has Christmas "forced" on them. I don't know any of them that simply can't stand that it's a holiday. Most of those that don't celebrate it just shrug and say "oh well" and take advantage of the deals.
I think that stores saying "season's greetings" isn't a big deal, but the feeling that no one is allowed to say "merry christmas" is stupid. If someone says "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Hanukah" or whatever, no big deal. I don't know of anyone that's offended by hearing that it's "the Christmas season". It is. That doesn't mean anyone is excluded, most muslims also practice it, simply because it's a holiday that's fun.
Jesus is the reason for the season Remember that. I'm not all that religious but its still true and most people don't realize or care about that. I think in these times we should just rename it to gift day. Thats all people do is run out and shop. Thats why Christmas (yes thats what the holiday is really called) starts in November for retail stores.
Hope you don't mind if I interject some of my comments:
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick95673
We are America. We shouldn't hold our nation up next to others.
We should be on a different level. This is how we are getting in to
trouble with the torture. We try to justify it with "we aren't doing it as
bad as they Iran, Iraq, China) are." We need to get away from justifying
poor ideas with the argument "other dumb people are doing the same stupid
thing we are." America is a nation of Christians not a Christian nation.
those who constantly use the argument that we are a majority of Christians
so we should have Christian rules and laws, are the same guys that get
upset that Iraq is taking the shape of a Muslim nation. No one is saying
prayer or Christmas is wrong. Forcing other Americans in to religious
situations however is not what America is about.
Let me start with "We should be on a different level." I disagree there more than anything else in your post. We should ALL be held to the same standards. I hate elitism and I hate Americans who are patriotically elitists even more. To think that we are better than anyone else in this world just because we were lucky enough to be born here is flat-out ignorant. Just like laws are meant for everyone (i.e. nobody is above the law), people are all meant to be measured by the same stick. There shouldn't be more than one standard to measure a person or a country.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick95673
If the players want to pray they can pray and so can the fans. If
the boss wants to have a private x-mass party at home they can. Imagine
you are a Muslim and you are working down in Alabama and the whole
government office shuts down and everyone goes to the conference room. So
you go because they all say c'mon you got to come it will be fun. When you
walk in every one lowers their head and the boss leads a prayer to a god
that is not your god. Then imagine they go around the room asking everyone
what made this year positive for you. We just happen to be Christian so it
seems to be ok to us.
The flaw in your argument is that nobody forces the Muslim to celebrate anything. He's getting a paid day off. Have you ever heard someone complain about that? Also, the Muslim is not forced to pray nor attend the Christmas party. He can stay at his desk and work, or he can go home (probably using up his leave), but he doesn't have to attend a Christmas party. I'm yet to see a mandatory Christmas party anywhere.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick95673
Or imagine you moved to Japan in 1925 and had a 7 year old son and
every day he had to pledge to the Japanese flag and at some point say
"under the watchful eye of the all powerful emperor." Now he is 7 knows
he doesnt believe this and that he would offend his god by saying this.
Every day all of his class mates are standing up and saying this. All he wants
to do is fit in, so he sales out his god. This way he is not the weird round-eye
Christian who hates Japan. The pledge of allegiance is really only said by young
children. I bet mostadults couldn't say it without stumbling. Try it I bet half
your office will mumble 80% of it.
I take it you're attacking the "under God" in the Pledge. Well, I agree, it doesn't have to be there, but it's there. There is no harm in saying it because God is considered a generic term in the Pledge. It means the god you want it to mean, just like on our currency. The Supreme Court has already upheld that as such. It wasn't originally that way. It was McCarthyism that put that phrase in the Pledge out of fear of Communists. I don't like it and I wouldn't mind it being taken out, to be honest, but it doesn't bother me that it's there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick95673
This nation is 87% Christian. X-mass isn't going anywhere. O wait
Christians are letting x-mass leave. some churches will be closed Sunday
December 25th due to expected low attendance. No atheists are telling
people not to go to church. However it seems to me most Christians in this
nation are only Christian when its easy. But giving up a lil fun time with
family to go celebrate the birth of Jesus in the one place where you really
should is too hard. Based on this up-roar of pro x-mass people I would
expect church to be pact on the 25th with people just exuding the Christmas spirit.
I am not saying x-mas should be killed. However it shouldnt be a celebrated
holiday at work or school. I celebrate x-mas in a huge way. I do the lights.
I go to at least 10 parties. And I travel to see family. But everything i do is
my choice and i dont force those around me to do any of it.
Over time, Christmas has been popularly changed to X-mas and, more recently, the Holiday Season. Do you know where the word Christmas comes from? It's a conjunction of Christ and Mass (Mass being the old English word for festival). It is the celebration of Christ. Seculars have changed it over time with X-mas and Holidays. Of course, X-mas has the mathematical variable X representing anything you want (i.e. you can celebrate anything you want at that time) and was meant for people to distance themselves from it celebrating Christ. Holiday, however, comes from Holy and Day. We're back to celebrating something holy, presumably Christ. However, you don't have to celebrate it. You can take your paid day off and just make it a family day. Who cares? I think it shouldn't be taken away as it has become a part of American culture and no longer represents that Christian celebration that it once did.
Also, just because people don't go to church doesn't mean they aren't at home giving thanks and praying. Church attendance might be down because people have come to realize that God is omniscient and he can hear your prayers from your house; you don't need to go to church for God to hear you.
Anywho, I think I should make clear that I am an Agnostic (i.e. I cannot know for sure if there is a god or not) and I do not celebrate Christmas the way most people do. LOL, I just remembered the "Festivus" episode from Seinfeld! The points I make here are not made because it is what I do, but because it is another point of view for people to think about.
Last edited by silverdevil : 12-09-2005 at 11:15 AM.
what was festivus. And as far as not being forced in to x-mas celebration i was twice today. 2 Broads came up to me with a list of what i would bring to the christmas party. I told them nothing and they said ok i will put you down for 7 dollars towards the platter. this happened twice in one day. It does get forced upon you in offices with too many women.
what was festivus. And as far as not being forced in to x-mas celebration i was twice today. 2 Broads came up to me with a list of what i would bring to the christmas party. I told them nothing and they said ok i will put you down for 7 dollars towards the platter. this happened twice in one day. It does get forced upon you in offices with too many women.
All you had to say was, "I don't believe in Christmas. Please don't ask me again." End of story.
but i do believe. I just hate wasted time at work. I am down to go to a bar and do it right but a half arse x-mas party at 10 am in the break room is stupid.
Remember that. I'm not all that religious but its still true and most people don't realize or care about that. I think in these times we should just rename it to gift day. Thats all people do is run out and shop. Thats why Christmas (yes thats what the holiday is really called) starts in November for retail stores.
