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Last night Tom Brokaw had a special about Evangelical churches being involved in politics. Obviously, they are pushing for anti-abortion, removal of liberal judges, anti-gay marriage, reduction in poverty. The one guy they featured from Colorado was in constant contact with GW and it is GW that calls him!
Is the church influencing government too much? I think so... Why is the government asking help from churches? Obviously the abstinence program is a complete flop, but what about other policies?
If so, what can be done if Evangelicals are becoming a quickly rising population with ever increasing political power? They obviously vote for who aligns with their Christian views. Should these Christian views run the country? They say they aren't trying to make everyone think they way they think, but I don't see it.
Discuss
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__________________ Life isnt a test drive, gotta live a little. (02fpcivic)
I dont get it. These same people say they are at war because the muslim leaders force muslim law on to their people. Yet at the same time they want Old testament style rules here. When Jackson's boob was shown on tv we could have gone in 2 directions in to the future or back to the 50's and it feels like we went the later. Now i am starting to get pist over abortion i am anti abortion but thats not all i think about. Yet for some reason thats all the senators want to know about the judges. At the end of the day if abortion is legal i am not going to tell my gf to get one and if they were illegal the girls who would want them would find a way. We dont need to legislate individuals decisions. But politics is a lot like the economy it swings. 8 years ago we had a cheating president who got bj's. Now we have fundamentalist muslim's wearing crosses saying their christians. it will all swing back to the left. people dont vote when they are happy so now all the normal people are pist at the folks who dry hump the bible and will vote in larger numbers.
theres more to life than gay doctors giving everyone abortions. i wish the christian right would fight for the homeless and sick like jesus did. i grew up with the bible in my house and never once remember jesus yelling "homo" or telling a young girl shes goin to hell. i do remeber him helping those who couldnt help themselves. I never remember jesus asking why people were poor b4 he helped them. saying someone is going to hell is the ultimate in using gods name in vain. who are we to make the ultimate decision for someones soul? im sorry but i dont think a loving god will send someone to hell who helped the homeless voluntered at old folks home and had 1 boyfriend his entire life. and a man who did none of that but banged 20 girls between the ages of 18-25 then raised a family woke up every sunday morning and went to a few picnics gets in. i just wish the christian right wasnt trying to save everyone. and from my experiences in life these nutso christians are all recovering addicts trying to make up for 5 years of blowing people for more H.
__________________ "Great male inventors: Henry Ford - Assembly line construction"
"Great female inventors: Janice Smith - Camel Toe"
Well, the problem with democracy is that it represents the majority of the voting population. If that majority tends to be Christian then we'll end up with government representatives who represent Christian beliefs and, as such, will pass laws in accordance with his electorates.
That's why I see democracy in the Middle East as nothing more than a dog and pony show. They will elect those people who will govern in accordance to the Qu'ran so, in essense, we are not really doing much to change things there, are we?
Ideally, I believe that those individual choices shouldn't be legislated and that people have a right to live however they'd like so long as their lifestyle soesn't dirrectly affect those around that person.
Short answer: keep religion out of politics.
__________________ I have too much respect for the idea of God to make it responsible for such an absurd world.
-Georges Duhamel
The radical of one century is the conservative of the next. The radical invents the views. When he has worn them out the conservative adopts them.
-Mark Twain
I'm all for keeping religion out of politics, however I wish we could keep politics out of religion. Why do you think religions want to keep gay marriage illegal? Because if not, then gay couples who wanted to get married would sue a pastor that felt that he would be in the wrong if he married them. We all know that's the direction this gay marriage thing is going.
That's the ultimate GOAL of homosexuals, to make sure that no one could "look down on them" or their behavior like most people do, and one way to do that would be to eliminate the right to have an opinion. Call it a "hate crime" if you read something from the Bible about homosexuality being a sin. Throw people in prison. We all know that's the goal and direction of it all.
If it wasn't for Liberals trying to press their crap on everyone else, the conservatives wouldn't have the support of millions of christians. They are a strong political bloc, very well funded and they have millions of voters. That's how GWB won, he duped them into thinking he was one of them (jokes on them).
I'm all for keeping religion out of politics, however I wish we could keep politics out of religion. Why do you think religions want to keep gay marriage illegal? Because if not, then gay couples who wanted to get married would sue a pastor that felt that he would be in the wrong if he married them. We all know that's the direction this gay marriage thing is going.
That's the ultimate GOAL of homosexuals, to make sure that no one could "look down on them" or their behavior like most people do, and one way to do that would be to eliminate the right to have an opinion. Call it a "hate crime" if you read something from the Bible about homosexuality being a sin. Throw people in prison. We all know that's the goal and direction of it all.
If it wasn't for Liberals trying to press their crap on everyone else, the conservatives wouldn't have the support of millions of christians. They are a strong political bloc, very well funded and they have millions of voters. That's how GWB won, he duped them into thinking he was one of them (jokes on them).
Not to knock you, but you said a lot but I have no idea what your stance is on any subject.
Marriage of homosexuals should have nothing to do with religion, but purely state/federal recognition. I have not heard homosexuals asking any church to accept them or marry them. They just want the same federal and state rights that heterosexual married couples do. However homosexual marriage is not the topic of this thread and I need to shut up now.
__________________ Life isnt a test drive, gotta live a little. (02fpcivic)
Not to knock you, but you said a lot but I have no idea what your stance is on any subject.
Marriage of homosexuals should have nothing to do with religion, but purely state/federal recognition. I have not heard homosexuals asking any church to accept them or marry them. They just want the same federal and state rights that heterosexual married couples do. However homosexual marriage is not the topic of this thread and I need to shut up now.
I know I didn't really mention my stance. I feel that, as a christian, I have no right to impose my will on everyone else. Murder, rape, homosexuality, premarital sex, lust, torture, abortion, idolatry, adultery, and divorce are all wrong, but it's not my job to try to use legislation to try to make people stop any of those. People that refrain from doing those aren't nessicarily (sp?) rightous. People are people, and people will sin.
Mind you, I am not in the majority of the Christian faith, however I'm just trying to interpret what the Bible says at the core. A lot of christians don't understand a lot about the Bible, and they think that you can somehow make people believe and follow and trust in God if you make it illegal for them to sin.
However I stand by the belief that it is the agenda for the liberals of america (at least the more "in-touch" ones, at the core of Berkeley, Moveon.org, Cindy Sheehan, Hillary Clinton, and Michael Moore) that eventually they would like to get rid of the churches in America. They would like to take away their tax exempt status, they would like to make it illegal for churches to speak negative about sin... in short, they would like to turn the US into a communist state, where there are no churches. Most of them are communists anyways...
That's the thing, in a democracy you cannot keep the will of the majority out of politics.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZapThyCat
I know I didn't really mention my stance. I feel that, as a christian, I have no right to impose my will on everyone else. Murder, rape, homosexuality, premarital sex, lust, torture, abortion, idolatry, adultery, and divorce are all wrong, but it's not my job to try to use legislation to try to make people stop any of those. People that refrain from doing those aren't nessicarily (sp?) rightous. People are people, and people will sin.
Mind you, I am not in the majority of the Christian faith, however I'm just trying to interpret what the Bible says at the core. A lot of christians don't understand a lot about the Bible, and they think that you can somehow make people believe and follow and trust in God if you make it illegal for them to sin.
However I stand by the belief that it is the agenda for the liberals of america (at least the more "in-touch" ones, at the core of Berkeley, Moveon.org, Cindy Sheehan, Hillary Clinton, and Michael Moore) that eventually they would like to get rid of the churches in America. They would like to take away their tax exempt status, they would like to make it illegal for churches to speak negative about sin... in short, they would like to turn the US into a communist state, where there are no churches. Most of them are communists anyways...
I was going to rep you for the first paragraph buy your last one prevented it. They are not communists and communism doesn't seek to eliminate religion from the people, either. This sounds more like McCarthyism than anything else.
I applaud the fact that you don't want to legislate your beliefs. I'm all for that. However, I believe in a totally secular nation. In a secular nation, no religions have any advantages so they would all have to pay taxes. What's the problem with making them pay taxes? I mean, if they want to be in politics and tell their sheep how to vote they they might as well pay their share like everyone else.
As for the gay marriage issue, that has nothing to do with churches. Just because the word marriage is used (which the church defines as a sacrament) doesn't mean that the church is sanctioning it. The word originates from mother, in latin (matre), and has nothing to do with the church. It was meant to distinguish those that had sex for conception and those who had sex for prostitution. That's all it meant, monogamy to one woman. That is nothing sacred in my opinion. Yes, the definition has changed and will continue to evolve, but the church cannot claim it as its own. In this country you cannot get married without the approval of the state, correct? You need a marriage license or no church can marry you, right? Well, all the homosexuals are asking for is that they are allowed to get such a license, even if no priest or church (or god, for that matter) recognize them as being married. Then they get the same treatment by the state as far as taxes and inheritance goes.
__________________ I have too much respect for the idea of God to make it responsible for such an absurd world.
-Georges Duhamel
The radical of one century is the conservative of the next. The radical invents the views. When he has worn them out the conservative adopts them.
-Mark Twain
Last edited by silverdevil; 10-30-2005 at 02:23 PM.
Hmmm, I'll try and answer that one, Rob: A non-Christian probably can't be elected here for one reason: Christianity is seen as the norm and anyone practicing anything other than Christianity is seen as being weird.
__________________ I have too much respect for the idea of God to make it responsible for such an absurd world.
-Georges Duhamel
The radical of one century is the conservative of the next. The radical invents the views. When he has worn them out the conservative adopts them.
-Mark Twain
Hmmm, I'll try and answer that one, Rob: A non-Christian probably can't be elected here for one reason: Christianity is seen as the norm and anyone practicing anything other than Christianity is seen as being weird.
I understand, but I am trying to facilitate discussion and posting a one liner doesn't help.
I mean people know my stance, and obviously this thread is attracting people with similar stances. I guess there isnt' much discussion to have. People are too busy posting about anal sex
__________________ Life isnt a test drive, gotta live a little. (02fpcivic)
i dont think there will be a non christian president in the near future because religion has laid claim to morals. A lot of people feel you cant be moral with out the fear of god. We call them traditional Christian/Muslim values not human values. Just because you dont want to waste your time fearing an all mighty doesnt mean you want to cheat on your girl and kill to get ahead. Yet those who are raised in religious homes are constantly tought you are nice because of religion. So if someone isnt down with your god they must be jerks. Even as christians and muslims read this and say "i dont feel like that" think have you ever thought less of someone or trusted them less because they didnt follow the magical powers written down by a 3rd person and re-translated about a 1000 times over history that can somehow be used on both sides of every argument ever. hell you can think i am going to hell for my views and i can think you are going to hell for saying you know where god is going to send me.
you happy rob?
__________________ "Great male inventors: Henry Ford - Assembly line construction"
"Great female inventors: Janice Smith - Camel Toe"
i dont think there will be a non christian president in the near future because religion has laid claim to morals. A lot of people feel you cant be moral with out the fear of god. We call them traditional Christian/Muslim values not human values. Just because you dont want to waste your time fearing an all mighty doesnt mean you want to cheat on your girl and kill to get ahead. Yet those who are raised in religious homes are constantly tought you are nice because of religion. So if someone isnt down with your god they must be jerks. Even as christians and muslims read this and say "i dont feel like that" think have you ever thought less of someone or trusted them less because they didnt follow the magical powers written down by a 3rd person and re-translated about a 1000 times over history that can somehow be used on both sides of every argument ever. hell you can think i am going to hell for my views and i can think you are going to hell for saying you know where god is going to send me.
you happy rob?
Yes Thanks
You make some good points. I have known some very mean Priests at my college. They are great priests, but very mean men. I always thought that was a oxymoron, but oh well.
I like your point about equating morality and religion. Care to expand and talk about how you think that influences our voting?
__________________ Life isnt a test drive, gotta live a little. (02fpcivic)
Thanks
