Political DiscussionA place to hold political debates and general discussion. Please remember to always respect the opinions of other members and above all else, be civil.
Give me one good reason why they should hand the money back?
they earned the money also, if you don't like it buy a bike or use the public transit system
Here is an even better idea: open a $20 billion business-watch it grow a deficit for the next ten or twenty years-then come back to me bitching about their profit
Nobody is holding a gun to your head, forcing you to buy gas
more power to them as long as it is legitimate
a - they wouldnt need to hand it back if they didnt unnecessarily take it from us in the first place
b- i do have a bike and i do use public transportation which btw also uses FUEL to run - imagine that
c - if I opened a 20 billion dollar business it would not "GROW a deficit" - that is impossible - it would either GROW to show a profit or DEPLETE, therefore showing a deficit.
If this business that I opened did show profits, why would I come back and bitch to you about it?
d - d00d - lets think about this realistically - sure no one is holding a gun to my head making me buy gas - but lets try this on for size - if we all stop buying gas what else follows? Let me tell you what - we wont need our cars anymore, so gas station owners, mechanics and car dealers will lose their jobs and thats just for starters - its a trickle down theory and at the end of it your precious BIG BUSINESS will end up being a big bunch of nothing becuase it will own a whole lot of something that no one uses anymore
e - i have no problem with businesses making money - its called free enterprise - but dont ass rape me in the process -
a - they wouldnt need to hand it back if they didnt unnecessarily take it from us in the first place
b- i do have a bike and i do use public transportation which btw also uses FUEL to run - imagine that
c - if I opened a 20 billion dollar business it would not "GROW a deficit" - that is impossible - it would either GROW to show a profit or DEPLETE, therefore showing a deficit.
If this business that I opened did show profits, why would I come back and bitch to you about it?
d - d00d - lets think about this realistically - sure no one is holding a gun to my head making me buy gas - but lets try this on for size - if we all stop buying gas what else follows? Let me tell you what - we wont need our cars anymore, so gas station owners, mechanics and car dealers will lose their jobs and thats just for starters - its a trickle down theory and at the end of it your precious BIG BUSINESS will end up being a big bunch of nothing becuase it will own a whole lot of something that no one uses anymore
e - i have no problem with businesses making money - its called free enterprise - but dont ass rape me in the process -
a and e-unnecessary?? I still fail to see how they are raping you in the ass by raising the price an extra dollar...
b-public transportation uses fuel??? stop it ...if you use public transportation you don't have to pay for the gasoline. Duh
c-contrary to your belief the oil companies do not show a profit from day one
d-a gallon of gas is 3 bucks, a gallon of water bought in liter bottles is more then that...what about aquafina or deer park or dannon...why don't you complain about that?? What you would like to see is fixed pricing and government controlled everything. No thanks, i gladly pay 3 dollars before i see that
a and e-unnecessary?? I still fail to see how they are raping you in the ass by raising the price an extra dollar...
b-public transportation uses fuel??? stop it ...if you use public transportation you don't have to pay for the gasoline. Duh
c-contrary to your belief the oil companies do not show a profit from day one
d-a gallon of gas is 3 bucks, a gallon of water bought in liter bottles is more then that...what about aquafina or deer park or dannon...why don't you complain about that?? What you would like to see is fixed pricing and government controlled everything. No thanks, i gladly pay 3 dollars before i see that
its not my one dollar - it's my one dollar over and over and over and yours over and over and the other 50 million "joes" one dollar over and over - just keeps on multiplying
as far as public transportation is concerned, what do you think your ticket fare pays for? The drivers lunch?
considering the fact that I do not believe that the oil companies just opened their shop doors today, I do not see your point about the whole not showing a profit from day one thing. we are talking about this quarters profit - a large one at that, eh?
as far as water is concerned, I prefer Poland Spring - and if you have a problem with how much it costs to buy "designer" water, then go home and get it free out of your kitchen sink - problem solved
^i would like to see government control over something that has a negative effect on the american people...yes!!!
yes, we don't have to pay for the gas on public transportation, but when gas prices go up, so do fares! so do plane tickets!!! that is, until the oil companies put everyone out of business!
bottled water is not essential to our way of life, especially named brand bottled water. that analogy was very poor my friend.
i seriously cannot comprehend the morons that support what the oil companies are doing. they do not need to make a quarterly profit of over 9 billion! they do not need to put the transportation industry out of business because it will come back and bite them in the ass when noone can afford oil anymore.
i simply cannot believe you don't see how this is effecting our way of life. you must be young or naive...or both! hell, look at your screen name...
Originally Posted by Fiji_Blue_EM2
a - they wouldnt need to hand it back if they didnt unnecessarily take it from us in the first place
b- i do have a bike and i do use public transportation which btw also uses FUEL to run - imagine that
c - if I opened a 20 billion dollar business it would not "GROW a deficit" - that is impossible - it would either GROW to show a profit or DEPLETE, therefore showing a deficit.
If this business that I opened did show profits, why would I come back and bitch to you about it?
d - d00d - lets think about this realistically - sure no one is holding a gun to my head making me buy gas - but lets try this on for size - if we all stop buying gas what else follows? Let me tell you what - we wont need our cars anymore, so gas station owners, mechanics and car dealers will lose their jobs and thats just for starters - its a trickle down theory and at the end of it your precious BIG BUSINESS will end up being a big bunch of nothing becuase it will own a whole lot of something that no one uses anymore
e - i have no problem with businesses making money - its called free enterprise - but dont ass rape me in the process -
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Originally Posted by CocaineInMyBrain
a and e-unnecessary?? I still fail to see how they are raping you in the ass by raising the price an extra dollar...
Every company has the right to charge what they feel is a fair price for thier product. The Oil companies just seem to take it to an extreme. Do you go back to the store to insist that you pay more for a product that you recieved a discount on? No! So why should they refund us the money we have already paid to them.
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b-public transportation uses fuel??? stop it ...if you use public transportation you don't have to pay for the gasoline. Duh
Ok, thats a dumb comment if I have ever heard one! Who do you think pays for the fuel that moves those rolling cruise ships? Every ticket and every quater that you drop goes to pay for fuel and income for that poor soul that is putting up with you.
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c-contrary to your belief the oil companies do not show a profit from day one
They are in the business to make money, if they do not show a increase in income/profit they would no longer be a viable entity to the share/stockholders and the location is closed ASAP.
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d-a gallon of gas is 3 bucks, a gallon of water bought in liter bottles is more then that...what about aquafina or deer park or dannon...why don't you complain about that?? What you would like to see is fixed pricing and government controlled everything. No thanks, i gladly pay 3 dollars before i see that
You can buy a Gallon of water for as low as .59 cents from your local grocery. It may not be Fuji Water or what ever... But it still hydrates and keeps your useless brain cells moving.
No one is supporting the oil company profits. I dont expect to see rappers and b-ball players wearin jackets with Exxon, BP, Texaco and Shell patches all over them. However I do know that complaining about their profits is just as dumb as my jacket idea. Complaining about their profits is not going to change a thing. I dont know the exact numbers but in the 90s congress told the big 3 that something like 5% of all the cars made by 2000 had to be alternative fuel or hybrid. Well seeing as how the american people went for explorers, blazers, suburbans and excursions the big3 just decided to ignore the 2000 deadline. No "normal" people cared, just the tree hugging hippy. If we acted and didnt react we wouldnt be in so deep. I blame the big3 for being short sighted. they do it all the time. i mean imagine if in 2002 10% of cars were getting 50mpg and we all knew someone who had one and it was reliable. I for one would have bought one. the only reason i own a civic is its economy.
we do need to pull back the oil compony tax subsidies. But getting upset about the price of oil isnt going to change a thing. we will always need oil. you need to direct your energy towards car makers. in the past 60 years we have gone from no space program to the moon and 2 space stations. yet fuel economy has gone from 10 mpg in a truck to 14 mpg.
PLENTY IN THE TANK
Backlash forms over oil profits
By DAVID IVANOVICH and LYNN J. COOK
Copyright 2005 Houston Chronicle
The major oil companies' gigantic profits have created an embarrassment of riches.
Scrambling to quell an uproar sparked by their third-quarter earnings, the oil companies are buying newspaper ads and dialing up members of Congress in the hopes of reining in the outcry before the winter heating bills hit.
Exxon Mobil Corp. alone rang up a $9.9 billion profit. Whether Exxon and its competitors will be able to persuade the public their earnings aren't really so huge remains to be seen.
"You make nearly $10 billion in a quarter, and you're making more than number of Fortune 500 companies put together," noted Ed Rothschild, a longtime energy industry critic in Washington.
Arguments that profits are not so high don't ring true to drivers still paying nearly $2.50 per gallon. "That's not going to wash," Rothschild argued.
While Exxon Mobil's earnings figure was the grandpappy of them all, BP, Royal Dutch/Shell, Chevron and ConocoPhillips all rolled out blockbuster profits last week.
And the political fallout was almost immediate.
Oil company executives have been called to testify about those earnings before a Senate panel Nov. 9. Exxon Chief Executive Officer Lee Raymond, ConocoPhillips CEO Jim Mulva and Shell Oil President John Hofmeister all have been asked to appear.
Even before many energy companies announced their earnings, House Speaker Dennis Hastert, R-Ill., called on the oil companies to funnel their anticipated profits toward expanding their refining capacity. Hastert swatted away suggestions the oil companies be subject to a windfall profits tax, the oil companies' tax nemesis from the 1980s.
On Wednesday, Energy Secretary Samuel Bodman reiterated the Bush administration's opposition to any such move. "We tried a windfall profits tax ... as a country back in the 1980s, and it failed," Bodman said.
But Republicans aren't in complete agreement.
Last week, Senate Budget Committee Chairman Judd Gregg, R-N.H., called for a windfall profits tax that could be used to assist low income residents pay their heating bills this winter. And on Tuesday, Senate Finance Committee Chairman Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa, sent a letter to industry trade groups calling on them to donate a portion of their profits to low income heating assistance programs.
Democrats have more radical ideas. Sens. Byron Dorgan, D-N.D., and Chris Dodd, D-Conn., have proposed levying a 50 percent excise tax on profits earned when a barrel of oil sells for more than $40 a barrel.
Under the plan, companies could reduce this tax liability by expanding their refinery capacity, boosting domestic oil and gas production or investing in renewable forms of energy.
While the Republican leadership's opposition would usually doom such a proposal, the measure has a feature that might make lawmakers think twice about saying no. It would require that the proceeds from the windfall profit tax be sent to American consumers in the form of "refund" checks. Proponents are clearly hoping voters who otherwise might be averse to raising taxes on the oil industry might be won over if they can count on a check in the mail.
'Oil and Apples'
For their part, the oil companies have been trying to make the case their earnings aren't out of line.
Exxon Mobil has taken out ads in major daily newspapers comparing oil and gas company earnings with other sectors. An ad headline "Oil and Apples," features a chart that shows pharmaceutical companies, banks, software firms and tobacco giants all earning more pennies on the dollar than energy companies.
The ad shows energy companies earning 7.7 cents per dollar of revenue, and Exxon Mobil 8.6 cents, versus 7.9 cents for U.S. industry overall. With "a true 'apples to apples' evaluation — you see that oil earnings are not out of step with other major industries," the ad reads.
Whether comparing the oil companies with other sectors is a smart strategy is a matter of debate.
Bala Dharan, professor of accounting at Rice University, doesn't see the point in comparing Big Oil to the makers of tennis shoes or TVs. But he said the fact they are using their profits to buy back stock, pay off debts and hoard cash is a sound long-term strategy.
Energy lobbyists are knocking on doors all over Capitol Hill, trying to get their message heard.
"Constituents are asking questions and looking for answers and, thus, members of Congress are looking for answers as well," said Mark Kibbe, senior tax policy analyst for the Washington-based American Petroleum Institute, which represents the majors. "That's what we're doing — nothing clandestine or anything. We're just being responsive and trying to get our message out."
API officials have been pointing to a study conducted by the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service on the nation's last, eight-year experiment with a windfall profit tax.
Conducted in 1990, two years after the repeal of the windfall profit tax, that report concluded the tax generated only a fraction of the revenue proponents had predicted, while actually helping to reduce domestic oil production by anywhere from 3 percent to 6 percent.
Proposal aimed at majors
The Democrats' new, windfall profit tax proposal is aimed specifically at the major, integrated oil companies. But the smaller independent producers fear they might get caught up in the same legislative sweep.
"People start looking for solutions, and bad solutions can gain traction," noted Lee Fuller, a lobbyist for the Washington-based Independent Petroleum Association of America.
All of the anger with the oil companies comes at a time when oil stocks are on the downward slide. Investors in oil stocks are in a funk, worried about high petroleum prices reducing demand. Oil sector stocks plunged 8 percent in October, said Deutsche Bank oil analyst Paul Sankey.
Indeed, the sector's stock performance last month ranked as the worst October since the stock market crash of 1987.
The greatest political danger for the oil companies could come early next year, when homeowners could be slammed with the heftiest home heating bills they've ever seen and lawmakers on Capitol Hill are gearing up for their primary races.
"Windfall profit taxes are driven by politicians who are driven by constituents who are driven by their pocketbook," noted energy analyst Dan Pickering of Pickering Energy Partners in Houston.
"Gasoline prices got into their pocketbook last month and ... what we have in front of us is a round of heating bills that are going to be even more significant. They're going to hurt everyone.
"And you don't get re-elected by doing nothing," Pickering said
again, people keep relating oil (a necessity), to household items etc. (a want). a company cannot capitalize at the expense of the "people." it is wrong!
you're right, complaining about it won't do anything because there are people out there like you who either don't care or support this nonsense.
i'll say this again also...can you imagine what would happen if the electric companies were not regulated?!?!?
oil, OUR natural resource, needs to be regulated!
again, people keep relating oil (a necessity), to household items etc. (a want). a company cannot capitalize at the expense of the "people." it is wrong!
you're right, complaining about it won't do anything because there are people out there like you who either don't care or support this nonsense.
i'll say this again also...can you imagine what would happen if the electric companies were not regulated?!?!?
oil, OUR natural resource, needs to be regulated!
crying over it wont do anything true -
people need to get mad enough about it to get off their asses and come together and work towards a solution
ENRON + California = what you want to imagine. it wasnt a good thing.
Wasn't Enron a Texas thing and California having a rolling blackouts due to Nevada or Utah or one of those states F'ing them over on the price of electric?
its not my one dollar - it's my one dollar over and over and over and yours over and over and the other 50 million "joes" one dollar over and over - just keeps on multiplying
It could be worse, how is that different from pepsi and coke company when they started to charge 50 cent more for their 20 oz. bottles in the past year or so...
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as far as public transportation is concerned, what do you think your ticket fare pays for? The drivers lunch?
If you use public transportation and/or car pooling you will save more gas and won't need to refuel that often.
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considering the fact that I do not believe that the oil companies just opened their shop doors today, I do not see your point about the whole not showing a profit from day one thing. we are talking about this quarters profit - a large one at that, eh?
You can't just take this quarters profit and make up an argument...look at the whole picture, it took a long time and a $hitload of capital for the oil companies to get off the ground... they have to get that money back somehow
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as far as water is concerned, I prefer Poland Spring - and if you have a problem with how much it costs to buy "designer" water, then go home and get it free out of your kitchen sink - problem solved
well why don't you just stop using exxon gas...switch over to shell or bp
You can buy a Gallon of water for as low as .59 cents from your local grocery. It may not be Fuji Water or what ever... But it still hydrates and keeps your useless brain cells moving.
ok let's try it again...a gallon of milk costs approximatelly $1.49 which is generously said half the price of gas. Now consider the fact that gas is finite and we will use it up eventually-where at milk is certainly more renewable; it has to be shipped over from half the world away-milk is made in the same country; it has to be refined in refineries that cost billions of dollars and take years to build-milk sure doesn't need all that to be sold....i could go on and on, plus milk is as much an necessity as gas is for you
ok let's try it again...a gallon of milk costs approximatelly $1.49 which is generously said half the price of gas. Now consider the fact that gas is finite and we will use it up eventually-where at milk is certainly more renewable; it has to be shipped over from half the world away-milk is made in the same country; it has to be refined in refineries that cost billions of dollars and take years to build-milk sure doesn't need all that to be sold....i could go on and on, plus milk is as much an necessity as gas is for you
actually, milk is NOT a necessity - unless you are a baby cow
