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I'm not a gun supporter, but at the same time, i don't believe getting rid of citizens' right to own guns (if that's what the framers intended) will do much to stop the "bad" guys from getting them
that right was only given to us because it was warranted at that time. i could care less about it for our time. i would probably vote to get rid of it alltogehter.
that right was only given to us because it was warranted at that time. i could care less about it for our time. i would probably vote to get rid of it alltogehter.
Yup, I'm in the same boat. It was necessary to keep the government honest. You see, back in those days, the citizens were able to arm themselves with the same weapons the government had. It was a fair fight. Now the situation has changed and I don't believe we need this amendment any longer.
The only ones who should have guns (guns, mind you, not hunting rifles or shooting shotguns) are the police and military. Hunting and target firearms should be limited by household and laws should be very strict concerning them (i.e. you commit a crime with a firearm you get 25-50 years jailtime with no parole, even if it's just attempted robbery).
Anywho, I'm very adamant about this amendment not being necessary any longer but I don't feel like getting into an argument with some NRA freaks about it, either.
BTW, I'm an independent who mostly despises both political parties.
i think we have guns for the reason of killing people who take our rights. i think we need it. for those of you that forgot about the war of 1812 the british marched on washington and burnt down the white house. I like knowing that if any nation invaded america we would have them out-gunned without the military. For those of you that think this is an outdated thought well i doubt the guys over in kosovo were thinkin man i better get ready for genocide in 1984.
no real party ties the big 2 and lil 2 all make me mad. what is right is right and what is wrong is wrong. i dont understand why i cant be pro porn anti abortion.
i think we have guns for the reason of killing people who take our rights. i think we need it. for those of you that forgot about the war of 1812 the british marched on washington and burnt down the white house. I like knowing that if any nation invaded america we would have them out-gunned without the military. For those of you that think this is an outdated thought well i doubt the guys over in kosovo were thinkin man i better get ready for genocide in 1984.
no real party ties the big 2 and lil 2 all make me mad. what is right is right and what is wrong is wrong. i dont understand why i cant be pro porn anti abortion.
I'm totally prepared to get flamed for this cuz I'm not even American but I think using the War of 1812 as the basis of your argument is a bit silly. I think your military will do just fine without every Tom, **** and Harry having a firearm. Someone already flew a damn plane into the Pentagon and citizens armed with Guns didn't do a damn thing to prevent it.
There has always been much debate over the 2nd Amendment--specifically as to exactly which rights it guarantees and to whom it guarantees them. It would be a good idea for anyone who is interested in this subject to read this article then read this other article to get a broader picture of the debate.
I'm totally prepared to get flamed for this cuz I'm not even American but I think using the War of 1812 as the basis of your argument is a bit silly. I think your military will do just fine without every Tom, **** and Harry having a firearm. Someone already flew a damn plane into the Pentagon and citizens armed with Guns didn't do a damn thing to prevent it.
planes flying in and killing 3k isnt a true threat. its terror. i am talking about invasions. and since ww2 there have been over 50 genocides and wars. i dont think all of those nations 5 years b4 it occured thought hey maybe our old baby sitter will rape my daughter while i am forced to watch then kill us all. the thought of mutual annihilation prevents alot from going down.
Last edited by nick95673 : 08-30-2005 at 03:12 PM.
I'm totally prepared to get flamed for this cuz I'm not even American but I think using the War of 1812 as the basis of your argument is a bit silly. I think your military will do just fine without every Tom, **** and Harry having a firearm. Someone already flew a damn plane into the Pentagon and citizens armed with Guns didn't do a damn thing to prevent it.
Not to flame you at all, but if we didn't have restrictions on freedoms to carry weapons, then armed parties would have been aboard those planes and they wouldn't have flown into the WTC. Seriously, terrorists wouldn't have even tried. Would you have tried to rob a bar in the old west? No of course not... everyone had guns back then, bartender included.
It's just a fact that when everyone has and owns guns, there is a lot less crime. It may sometimes lead to vigilante justice, like in Pakistan, etc, but look at Switzerland: Everyone owns assault rifles there, because they are all in the military reserve... no one messes with people then.
Then you look at a lot of nations that have stricter gun control laws than us, like Russia and Brazil. Guess what? Their crime rates are WAY higher. It's just a liberal propaganda to point at Australia and Britain as examples of "lower" crime rates when they took the guns out of the people's hands....
^before 9/11, i believe it was legal to carry a handgun onto a plane with a concealed handgun license, as long you state that youre carrying it.
outlawing guns wont make it any safer, but having guns doesnt make it that much safer either. there are tasers for one thing, and most situations in which a gun is needed to defend yourself, a taser is an adequate replacement.
you use the "look at other nations" tactic zap, and you use a country with high crime rate and russia, which doesnt have much crime involving guns. look at britain, and japan, they have no guns and its safer than it is over here.
but like i said, realistically speaking, how many deaths or injuries happen each year as a result of people honestly defending themselves with a gun? i doubt not as much as people's legal guns murder.
im not pro or anti 2nd ammendment. i guess if anything i would be pro, but there are some restrictions that need to be made.
anyone that says we need guns to defend ourselves from an invasion is a moron or somewhat loony. or you watched red dawn way too many times. having an ar-15, .45 semi with 15 round clip, or a 12 guage isnt going to protect you from an invasion, because nobody is going to invade unless they have some serious artillery anyways. if youre worried about protecting yourself in an invasion, you better stock up on mines, guided missiles, night vision, and rpg's.
^before 9/11, i believe it was legal to carry a handgun onto a plane with a concealed handgun license, as long you state that youre carrying it.
outlawing guns wont make it any safer, but having guns doesnt make it that much safer either. there are tasers for one thing, and most situations in which a gun is needed to defend yourself, a taser is an adequate replacement.
you use the "look at other nations" tactic zap, and you use a country with high crime rate and russia, which doesnt have much crime involving guns. look at britain, and japan, they have no guns and its safer than it is over here.
but like i said, realistically speaking, how many deaths or injuries happen each year as a result of people honestly defending themselves with a gun? i doubt not as much as people's legal guns murder.
im not pro or anti 2nd ammendment. i guess if anything i would be pro, but there are some restrictions that need to be made.
anyone that says we need guns to defend ourselves from an invasion is a moron or somewhat loony. or you watched red dawn way too many times. having an ar-15, .45 semi with 15 round clip, or a 12 guage isnt going to protect you from an invasion, because nobody is going to invade unless they have some serious artillery anyways. if youre worried about protecting yourself in an invasion, you better stock up on mines, guided missiles, night vision, and rpg's.
i agree it sounds totally crazy but its like i said many great nations have been invaded when they wernt looking and thought everything was ok. and honestly its not so much other nations i am concerned about. we were given the right so we could fend off those trying to impose their views upon us. the british were the legal rulers of the colonies aka u.s.a. just as the current government is until we decided to kill as many as we could and get free. this sounds crazy but with local govts using the right of imminent domain they can take your land, if they think they can put it to better use. so lets say i go 20 miles outside of sacramento and buy 15 acres to raise horses on, and do as i please. 40 years from now the suburbs have made their way out there. well the new town that has developed around me has the right to build a road in the middle of my land, beacause they didnt plan well. then 5 years later they decide to build a strip mall on my unused land. its now worth 15million. i bought it when it was nothing but a field with stumps in it. i put fences up and irrigation so i could do what i loved. which is whatever i want to do. and i had the foresight 45 years earlier to purchase land so i could own open land near a city in kali. then 10 years later they decide they want more land and seeing as how everything else in the new expensive suburb has been developed they decide the new mcdonalds/upsstore/sams club would fit nicely on my house. at this point i am 70 i had the foresight to buy land and plan my life to enjoy it. the new city around me was thrown up by developers and half built b4 it incorporated and had a city planner. this is where i shoot first city lawyers then officers in the head as they come to kick me off my land. this is the main reason i want guns. i know its way way way over the top but the govt can do it has done it and is planning to do it. where do you think the land comes from when a 2 lane road becomes a 4 lane road.
and you could bring the gun but had to check the ammo in pre 9/11
Last edited by nick95673 : 08-30-2005 at 09:37 PM.
ok, in israel everyone has a gun, even in schools. there have been attacks there and people have been shot by terrorists. you know what they did? they took their guns out and shot the guy dead. its controlled but nesseccary. i believe its the same way here. if i have a gun and im a responsible citizen, and i see a guy robbing a guy or hurting someone, i would use my gun if he had one. no shame or nothin. its protection against people who make us need that protection
Even if we weren't granted the privilege of possessing guns........criminals will still possess them. Drugs are illegal, yet we spend billions of dollars every year trying to control it.
As it stands now, when law abiding citizens purchase a firearm, they go to the gun shop and a background check is run on them and the firearm becomes registered. Law abiding citizens tend not to commit crimes with firearms. The criminals who purchase firearms illegally do. I feel that i have every right to protect myself and my family against any strung out crackhead who he trying to rob me of $20 to get his fix.
