Oil Filter and the anti-drain back valve

[Hunt4Steve]

I have a 2003 Civic HX with the 1.7L 4Cyl engine, a 5spd tranny and about 120k on the engine. I've recently been using Mobil 1 synthetic from Walmart for my motor oil, and Napa Gold filters (made by Wix) from Napa. I usually run about 7 thousand miles between oil changes, and the oil filter is changed every 3500 miles. Here is the interesting part and what I'm seeking help on: During my last oil filter change, I jacked up the front end of the car, slide under there and removed the old oil filter. I expected some oil to come out of the filter as I removed it....but nothing came out. Needless to say, I was surprised. I though the anti-drain valve would have kept some of the oil in the filter, but from what I could visually see, no oil was accumulated in the filter, at least not enough to poor out. So, is something wrong, or is this normal? This is the first Civic I've had of this year and engine, so I'm not quite sure if this behavior is accurate. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

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[greeen01civic4d]

was the oil warm, or was the car cold

[gearbox]

i usually dont get oil coming out but i do mine cold. i dont like getting burned all over lol.

[Hunt4Steve]

Originally Posted by greeen01civic4d

was the oil warm, or was the car cold

The engine was cold.

I kinda figured with the ant-drain back valve, there should have been "some" oil in there.....guess not.

The car runs great, despite this, what appears to be an irregular issue here........


When I change the oil, I make sure the engine has reached normal operating temperature, so that the oil will flow out of the oil pan more easily. But, when I'm just changing the oil filter, it seems like it shouldn't matter if the engine is hot or cold, its just the filter that is being changed. The next time I start to drive it, I let it warm up, and ensure there is enough oil in the engine before I drive down the road.

[gearbox]

im sure there was some, afterall the filter is much heavier than the new one right? alot of it stays absorbed in the pleats. just keep using quality filters (napa gold, mobil1, K&N) and youll be fine. they all have anti-drain valves.

[ragingSPAM]

when the engine has sat for long enough for the oil to be cold the filter usually drains if its a cheap filter...the napa one is on the cheaper side...when i took automotive engineering classes we dissected oil filters and few were very high quality. AMSoil, mobil1, Honda OEM for the s2000/nsx, and a few others but some of the cheaper ones like fram, bosch, purolator, etc. were pretty crappy internally. Plastic bypass valves instead of metal and paper filters instead of a cotton based like Mobil1 or amsoil.

[gearbox]

last time i changed my mobil1 no oil came out of it. im using K&N now.

[Hunt4Steve]

hmmmm..

I figured that Wix (Napa Gold) filters were pretty good, better than most.....

incorrect thinking????

[greeen01civic4d]

i use honda filters, and dont get much oil out when i change my oil, if the car is hot, its a different story, some oil will come out, try it sometime

[gearbox]

napa gold is excellent filter. i hope you're using the "good" honda filter part and not the junk fram ones.

[Hunt4Steve]

For those of you who are interested in reading some pretty good info about Oil-filters (and why I use readily available WIX filters), check out the following site:

http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters/index.html


Here is the biggest reason I don't use Fram Oil filters: an email from one of the Fram engineers:

Russell,
I obtained great satisfaction from reading your oil filter survey.

I worked for two years as the oil-filter production line engineer in
an Allied-Signal FRAM facility and I can confirm every bad thing you
have said about FRAM automotive filters. That's from the horse's
mouth, as it were.

I'm also a quality engineer and can confirm that FRAM applies no
quality control whatsoever to any of the characteristics for which we
buy oil filters. I frequently saw filter designs which were barely
capable of meeting J806. Many of FRAM's designs will block and go to
bypass after trying to filter very little contamination. There were
often leakage paths at the paper end discs when these were not
properly centered on the elements. Some designs had the pleats so
tightly packed against the center tube that they would block off in no
time. I had discovered that the FRAM HP1 that I had been buying for
about $20 Cdn was EXACTLY the same as a PH8 inside - the only
difference being a heavier can - no advantages in flow capacity. The
paper filtration media was of apparently poor quality and the process
of curing the paper resin was very inconsistent - elements would range
from visibly burnt to white. FRAM's marketers admitted that there was
just about no way the public could ever prove that an oil filter
contributed, or did not prevent, engine damage. The only thing FRAM
tested for was can burst strength. Another problem that they have from
time to time is in threading the filter base - often there are strands
of metal left behind on a poorly formed thread.

I have not used a FRAM filter since I started working there. Their
claims are entirely and completely marketing bullshit.

If people really want to protect their engines, a good air filter is
vital (which excludes FRAM from that list as well) and a combination
of one depth and one full-flow hydraulic filter, together in parallel,
will do the job of filtration to perfection.

Thanks for doing a great job in trying to get the truth out! You can
quote me anytime.

[name omitted to protect submitter]

Link for above text: http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters/fram1.txt


I can't determine the date of this email, but with the current economy and the way corporations are looking to save money, I wouldn't expect Fram to have improved their manufacturing quality.

After looking at my Napa Gold (Wix filter) filter a little closer, I used a precision dental pick and pulled the Nitrile anti-drain seal loose; some oil seeped out. Indeed, there was oil in there, I guess I was expecting more. I may have to go to the Stealership and pick up a Honda filter and cut it open to see how much media is in there, as opposed to the Napa Gold filter I'm using. Since I commute in my car about 90 miles a day (80% hwy/ 20% city), I put on some considerable mileage. I want to be sure I'm getting the best filtering I can get to help my engine last as long as possible. And for those who are into hyper-mileing, my best MPG to date is 49mpg.....needless to say, I'm a happy camper with my little HX model.

cheers.

[Hunt4Steve]

After doing some more research and reading, I think I'm going to switch over to a Purolator PureOne:

Part# PL14610



Specifications:
Anti-Drain Back Valve Yes Height 3.52
O.D. 2.69 Relief Valve P.S.I. 14-18
Threads M20-1.5 Type of Filter Spin-on
Weight 6.9


I can get two of these from the Amazon site for $9.48

http://www.amazon.com/Purolator-PL14...1080041&sr=1-1

[Silver02EX]

Originally Posted by ragingSPAM

and a few others but some of the cheaper ones like fram, bosch, purolator, etc. were pretty crappy internally. Plastic bypass valves instead of metal and paper filters instead of a cotton based like Mobil1 or amsoil.

I wouldn't call the Bosch or Purlolator (Pure One) "cheap" Those are some of the best filters on the market. Both of them has silicone ADBV compared to others such Fram, Super Tech or other house brand.

[greeen01civic4d]

wix is one of the best, and im using the "good" honda filters, never had a problem, used mobil 1 filters for a while, as well as k&n filters. a filter is a filter

[gearbox]

okay because the honda has two part numbers. one of them is the same as the $2 frams in the store. the pure one is pretty good too, i can usually find those for $4-5. i just play it safe and buy a filter that i know wont fail (K&N, mobil1, wix). prolly purolator does a good job too, i just wouldnt use it personally.