Honda Civic Fuel, Oil, Cleaners & Other MaintenanceExtending the life of your Honda Civic requires the proper fuel, oil, and cleaners, along with other regularly scheduled maintenance. Keep your Honda Civic fuel and oil at the right levels to keep your Civic on the road longer.
Well, the idea that higher grade gas is bad for your car isn't really true. It's based on the fact that the higher octane burns slower, which is true, but you have to put things in perspective. There is about 2 order of magnitude bewteen the burn rate and piston velocity, so although it burns slowwer, it's like comparing which is faster than a civic, a SR-71 Blackbird (travels up to mach 4) or an F1 fighter jet (travels around mach 2), sure the Blackbird is faster, but both are way faster than the civic. So comparing 93 to 87, it really doesn't matter for burn time. In theory the 87 will give you a tad bit more power, but I doubt it's even enough to be noticable on a dyno.
Same here. i've been using 91 octane in my 03 civic since day one...i now have 50+ thousand miles on her and she still run's great....this hole post thread in based on the soul opinion of one biast person......if you want a "Real" scientific hypothisis and conclution research ALL of the products, w/ the Positives and Negetives....its obviouse by now that we all know the Definition of the word "Octane".....But all engines run diffrently, no matter if there the same generation engine or what have you....if you statement is true s2000 then why havnt i had any Significant powerloss, and why does my engine in all its technical specs. have minimal wear to it...........maybe its not the gasoline or the additives....maybe its the driving habbits of thouse who race to every red light. Everyone has ther own opinion on gasoline, you MIGHT be correct in your statment but only to a small degree, and even then Using a Lower quality Gasoline also Has its disadvantages, like deposits. ect. just because the goverment sets a standard, does not mean that that standard is correct....show me some prof. not the statments of biast persons..like the gasoline companys testemonies or even the Department of Energys Statments...........i wana see 3 engines 3 diffrent types of gasoline, and 3 diffent results then...and only then....will i stop "pissing away my money"
Edit: P.s After reading my own post it has come to me that it might seem alittle ummmm mean...i dont know..i didnt mean for it to come out that way but anyway...yea thats it..
I also think you are missing the bigger point S2000man is tring to make, the quality of gasoline is the same if they are from the same station (unless they have different pumps for each grade). If you buy 87 from shell, it will have the same cleaners and all that the 93 will.
If you want 3 different motors with three different grades of gas, you better be more specific and say all threerun on gas from the same company. My dad put 250,000 mile on his Accord with nothing but 87 and dino oil with out ever having anything cleaned in the fuel system, that far out does your 50,000 (his died from tranny problems, motor ran fine).
Same here. i've been using 91 octane in my 03 civic since day one...i now have 50+ thousand miles on her and she still run's great....this hole post thread in based on the soul opinion of one biast person......if you want a "Real" scientific hypothisis and conclution research ALL of the products, w/ the Positives and Negetives....its obviouse by now that we all know the Definition of the word "Octane".....But all engines run diffrently, no matter if there the same generation engine or what have you....if you statement is true s2000 then why havnt i had any Significant powerloss, and why does my engine in all its technical specs. have minimal wear to it...........maybe its not the gasoline or the additives....maybe its the driving habbits of thouse who race to every red light. Everyone has ther own opinion on gasoline, you MIGHT be correct in your statment but only to a small degree, and even then Using a Lower quality Gasoline also Has its disadvantages, like deposits. ect. just because the goverment sets a standard, does not mean that that standard is correct....show me some prof. not the statments of biast persons..like the gasoline companys testemonies or even the Department of Energys Statments
Real quick here.
This is scientific fact, and jrfish007 is also backing me up on this. This is not my "biased opinion". Did you even READ the links I gave for both the Federal Trade Commission, howstuffworks.com, and the info from the American Petroleum Institute (the API is a non-profit unbaised organization)? All I did was summarize and explain in detail everything they said. So to say I'm "biased" and not telling you facts, is the same as saying the API and FTC federal agencies are biased and aren't telling you the facts. I don't know how else I can repeat myself 30 times over before you'll get that.
I ALSO gave you the technical reason WHY high octane gas is bad for your lower octane civic. I explained it exactly how it happens, with burn time and everything. And you just ignore that and throw it out as "biased opinion"?
As for your 50k+ miles on 91 octane, you have been losing power from day one. And the damage that occurs is not something that happens overnight. It occurs over time. In fact, go take apart the head of your civic. I bet your valves will be burnt to hell and have far more deposits of contaminants and crap in your engine head of a civic with the same miles that has been using 87 octane. I also wouldn't be surprised if you failed emissions within the next 25k miles as well as possibly have your catalytic converter go bad, ironically, right about the time your cat warranty expires.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Down_
You cant forget that 03+ civic ecu's have the ability to "learn" or compinsate for diffrent situations...........for example if you add and intake the ecu will compinsate for the add'd air in the mixture, and run the car more rich...its also possible that it can compinsate for the higher octane in the fuel , or another example...anyone w/ a vafcII can tell ya this......if you set your vafc to a certine point the ecu will reconize it ( given enought time like 2 months or somthin) and revert back to stock. hence the reason your cars dont feel as powerful as they origanly did when you put it on.
Again, ignoring the problem at hand. As I already said, to adjust for higher octane gas you must ADVANCE your ignition timing and adjust your exhaust valve timing. Sorry but, all the changing of your a/f ratio in the world won't adjust for higher octane gas. All that does is change the mixture's a/f ratio. (duh)
Your ECU WILL NOT ADVANCE TIMING just because you put in higher octane gas. In fact, your ECU will not EVER advance timing. Because it can't.
A/F is adjusted for by the ECU or VAFC. But again, since higher octane gas burns longer, you need to adjust your ignition timing and exhaust valves for that. So your statement about the learning ECU of the civic is irrelevant, since it can't even physically do what needs to be done to run higher octane fuel.
(FYI, the civic ignition timing is 18 degrees. Advancing it to about 16 degrees and then retarding your exhaust valves slightly would probably be adequate to run premium fuel)
Last edited by S2000man01 : 03-21-2005 at 06:03 PM.
I would use regular 87 octane gas. I had a v6 6-speed accord and that's all i ever used in it as well. 89 might be ok too, but only go up to 89 if your engine is knocking on the 87.
to give you guys what I'm talking about with ignition timing and honda setting up your car for a certain octane, the civic's ignition timing is 18 degrees. The S2000, which requires premium, is 5 degrees. (the lower the number, the more advanced the timing is) Though I should note, the S2k can advance or retard the timing as much as 3 degrees either way, based upon several sensors. (load, vacuum, knock, etc)
Last edited by S2000man01 : 03-21-2005 at 08:52 PM.
i've used 89 for a year, but I still need to advance the timing at least 2 degrees if not more when I get the cam gear and tune it. Then I'm sure it'll be okay. I believe on our cars changing cam timing also changes the ignition timing.
From what I know, cam timing and ignition timing are completely seperate. Cam timing is controlled by the cam gears and cams obviously. Ignition timing is controlled by the distributor.
what is this "knock" suppose to mean? how do you know if its "knocking"?
does it happen when u use low grade fuel or something?
well if you've ever heard your engine run under normal conditions, "knocking" would be described as a "knocking sound" coming from the top of your engine block. this is caused by pre-detonation. in other words, the mixture detonating before the ignition spark actually causes it to do so. it's louder than the normal engine sound by a slight bit as well.
it can happen if you get bad gas, but not from putting 87 octane in. assuming 87 is the minimum octane requirement.
if you put 87 in an S2000, you'd hear some knocking since it requires premium, for example.
i've used 89 for a year, but I still need to advance the timing at least 2 degrees if not more when I get the cam gear and tune it. Then I'm sure it'll be okay. I believe on our cars changing cam timing also changes the ignition timing.
That's true on the D16 because the rotor of the distributor was directly connected to the cam, it literally stayed in time with the cam, so if you adjusted the cam, you adjusted the timing. But the D17 doesn't have a distributor, it all electronically controlled through solid state relays and ignition coils. Changing your cam timing on a D17 won't affect the timing on the D17. I know it is electronically controlled, but I am not sure if the ECU controls it for the D17 or if it is a separate control system for the ignition.
Last edited by Jrfish007 : 03-22-2005 at 08:15 AM.
ok, what about my V6 Accord? It has higher compression then civic right? What am I to do?
btw, my compression is 10.0 : 1 Civic EX is 9.9:1 so I guess it's not that big a diff.
Well, just go with what the manual says, and I think that is 87. Remember the civic may have a 9.9, but it can run 86. My Accord needs "regular" gas (I think that means 87)
Well I guess we'll find out when I get my cam gear in a few months (backorder sucks). Is there any truth to older cars needing premium to run better?
Yeah, like S2000man01 said, if carbureted. The problem with that is that the fuel is not aromatized properly in a carburetor (it's not spread out), specially because it has a wet manifold compared to a EFI car that has a dry manifold. So you get pockets of fuel with out air and pockets of air without fuel, this means you will pocket in areas that are very lean, hence they will cause detonation and blow the motor up eventually. Higher octane fuel can help in preventing this.
That's true on the D16 because the rotor of the distributor was directly connected to the cam, it literally stayed in time with the cam, so if you adjusted the cam, you adjusted the timing. But the D17 doesn't have a distributor, it all electronically controlled through solid state relays and ignition coils. Changing your cam timing on a D17 won't affect the timing on the D17. I know it is electronically controlled, but I am not sure if the ECU controls it for the D17 or if it is a separate control system for the ignition.
Thanks for posting. I was unsure of whether the civic had a distributor but i know that the D17 ignition timing is not controlled by the cam gear, unlike the D16.
Did you even READ the links I gave for both the Federal Trade Commission, howstuffworks.com, and the info from the American Petroleum Institute (the API is a non-profit unbaised organization)? All I did was summarize and explain in detail everything they said. So to say I'm "biased" and not telling you facts, is the same as saying the API and FTC federal agencies are biased and aren't telling you the facts. I don't know how else I can repeat myself 30 times over before you'll get that.
